Attraction

Mysterious...

... in short, yes. We choose everything that happens to us ... until we choose something else.

Like windy said; " ... be careful what you ask for." - But we do this unconciously most of the time. We don't know what we're asking for so we think we're getting one thing, and we get another (perhaps with a little bit of what we wanted).

There's SO mutch more to people than we think. And don't forget that element called god ... perhaps more than anyone bargained for. God lives in everyone and everything, no exeptions. God is who you are ... but also who everybody else is. There's no messing with it.

 

25yrs... did you ever watch 'Dune'? - The guy with his hand in the box going " ...The pain!"
It's a test of your humanity

 

the applicable quote would be 'You've heard of animals chewing off a leg to escape a trap? That's an animal kind of trick. A human would remain in the trap, endure the pain, feigning death that he might kill the trapper and remove a threat to his kind. We Bene Gesserit sift people to find the humans.'

It's a test of humanity, to undergo and endure pain, to learn to control your reactions to it.

There was a game a few years back, called Planescape, and it had a set of writings called 'the unbroken circle of zerth'amon ' in it, which stated a similar precept 'Endure, and in enduring, grow strong'. So also was the philosophy of the Stoics, which unlike what many thought, did not deny their pain (or their pleasure) but saw them as things to be endured.

 

I LOVED Planscape!!

What was it? ... "On the blasted plains ..bla, bla, ...there can be only one sky." (Mmm .. long time ago now!)

... ah, thats it! - and thanks for the link, i'll read it later. ... devour it, ... like food.

 

pming it to you so as not to spam up the thread.

 

So back to topic, yeah, it sounds pretty much like you've dated M's twin sister.

 

Why can't people, especially women, just be who they are on the inside as well as the out?

This girl - I guess I'll give her a nickname too "E" - that I wrote about a few posts ago and the reason for starting the thread originally is like this. She puts this bad ass persona out to everyone when underneath it all she's highly sensitive. She's gone back and forth in her interest and disinterest in me and I'm wondering if it had to do with how I was thinking? Did I attract her interest then repel it? Now, "E" is seeing this other woman. It's like I can't forget about her b/c she just won't go away. She'll IM me or text me randomly. I just don't get it. If, and this was just my theory, she was taken away in the manner that she's with someone else, then why stay around? Why make it harder for me to get over her? Am I supposed to be being taught a lesson? I suppose if she wants to stay friends, then that's fine.

Let me explain something here, I've never had a kiss like I have had with her. It's so electric and even when she just touches my hand...it's....wow, I just really can't explain it. I've kissed alot of women and touched alot of women's hands, but never had this feeling. So.....what does that all mean?

Blarg....its all so irritating.

 

sweetie, if I could answer THAT question, I could end 2/3 of the strife in the world simply by revealing the answer. What does it say when women can't figure out women?

I will say this...people seem to want most what they can't have. seems like she's trying to grab your attention every time it looks like you might 'really' be over her.

Once she has it and knows you still want her, well, she doesn't want it again. Think about a little kid. They want ice cream because dad says 'no', but when they can finally have some, they don't really want it? Same deal. It's why stolen brownies are so good, but if you can have all you want...'what's the appeal?'

I mean, think about it...part of the reason you're so wound up over her is you 'can't have her'. the question is more 'do you really WANT her?' So long as you do, in a way, she owns you. Same as M did me for quite a while. But if a girl came up and tossed herself at you...would you really be intrested?

 

I would say you need to go deeper. You say you're indifferent, but that's not what I'm hearing - seems to me you want the person to go. That's not indifference. So the next question is: What is the person doing that you want to stop?

 

something I've seen, along with your commentary on jealousy, hun, is that a lot of women like to work their partner's nerves. See what they can get them to do. See if they can get this guy to fight for them by mouthing off to this guy at the bar, or see if their mate'll get jealous because they're doing whatever with this person.

 

25yrs, i was thinking today how this Zerthimon stuff is somehow relevant to the thread ... or at least, recent discussions about being decieved by ourselves and consequently others. ...relevant to 'shielding the mind' and not giving thought power by thinking ... and about your own undivided will. A will born of what the mind doesn't know, but YOU do. It's about reclaiming power from the mind, and not letting others control your thinking.

Hey, you mentioned the 'Bene Gesserit' ... i'll admit i never payed attention to what this group were called ... it seems we draw from the same pool of inspiration! ... i had watched Dune again last summer and autumn for the first time in years, and it IS inspiring to me. The last dream of the triple goddess i had was back in November .... three 'triplets' this time, ... three identical teenage girls. I was sitting on my bed talking and they sat on the floor listening, for some reason the one in the middle was naked, but they all had these otherworldly blue luminescent eyes ... just like in Dune. So we talked intently, although i don't remember any dialogue in particular. I felt a plan was being hatched, and i kinda feel i'm living out that plan this year.

On another note: Forgiveness is what's going on with me this week. I'm not sure what i'm forgiving exactly ... i feel like it's forgiving everything really ... something like forgiving the human condition or forgiving the things that make us feel separate ... forgiving our fuckedupness, forgiving unconciousness. It's all making me feel a little melancholy, but it'll pass.

 

you may, perhaps, be right, but one never knows what a moderator might be thinking, either.

 

Oh i'm sure Old Crone (our moderator) would understand. But where has she been recently? - Hope all is well O.C.

 

OC's the mod here? You're right, she probably wouldn't be down on it, as she's actually a pretty groovy lady.

but yeah...It's weird, because I'm sitting here myself going 'why and what am I forgiving her for?' being blind, I suppose. hurting me, perhaps. Making a mess and then running away from it. Being fearful? not trusting me to my word because she couldn't keep hers? I dunno.

 

I'm just sampling this discussion - I can't hope to keep up, but this little bit grabbed my attention - I've seen and read Dune lots of times, and love it. Funny that I never noticed this parallel: There is also a very similar scene in Fight Club, where Tyler has just dumped lye on "Jack's" hand and is holding it tightly to prevent "Jack" from escaping - Tyler gives this little speech:

"Stay with the pain--don't shut this out...without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing...THIS is your pain; THIS is your burning hand--it's right here...don't deal with it the way those dead people do...what you're experiencing is premature enlightenment...you have to consider the possibility that God does not like you, and never wanted you. In all probability, he hates you. It's not the worst thing that can happen...We don't NEED him. Fuck damnation, man! Fuck redemption! We are God's unwanted children? So be it! ...First you have to give up. First you have to know--not fear, KNOW--that someday you're gonna die..."

"It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything..."

Then after "Jack" relaxes and chooses to endure the pain, Tyler pours vinegar on his hand to neutralize the lye and says:

"Congratulations. You're one step closer to hitting bottom."

 

You've mentioned 'fight club' several times, zengizmo, i guess i should watch it sometime.
... strange about the 'burning hand'. - exactly the same in Dune eh? ...a burning hand in the box. Actually now i think about it ... kinda reminds me of a dream i had a few months ago in which i was putting my hand into a lions mouth. Yes it crunched it's incisors into my hand breaking a couple of bones. Didn't hurt particularly though. However the next day i found out my nephew had hit a door in frustration (because of a girl), and had broken a bone in the middle of his hand.
- This is one instance of what i mean when i say i sometimes dream of things that happen to others, not myself, but this conversation has perhaps revealed another, deeper meaning to it. - Something about physical pain being an illusion (the box in Dune)... mutch like our physical form being, ultimately, an illusion. - Endure until you realise the illusion or rather that it is self-created....?
What's 'lye' anyway?

And another few words from Eckhart which may be relevant to this:

"If your overall situation is unsatisfactory or unpleasant, separate out this instant and surrender to what is. Your state of conciousness then ceases to be controlled by external conditions. You are no longer coming from reaction and resistance."

 

I'm gonna be quoting alot of stuff from Eckhart Tolle over the next few weeks i think. I just hope it can sink in on some level, for myself also ... if not for now then for later. Already familiar with 'A new Earth', i bought 'The power of Now' recently and it's mindblowing ... almost scary, yet it is speaking to me very deeply.
Anyway here's a good bit ... getting down to the nitty gritty mechanics of our reality:

"The body does not die because you believe in death. The body exists, or seems to, because you believe in death. Body and death are part of the same illusion, created by the egoic mode of conciousness, which has no awareness of the source of life and sees itself as separate and constantly under threat. So it creates the illusion that you are a body, a dense physical vehicle that is constantly under threat.
To percieve yourself as a vulnerable body that was born and a little later dies - that's the illusion. Body and death: one illusion. You cannot have one without the other. You wan't to keep one side of the illusion and keep the other, but that is impossible. Either you keep all of it or you relinquish all of it.
However you cannot escape from the body, nor do you have to. The body is an incredible misperception of your true nature. But your true nature is concealed somewhere within that illusion, not outside it, so the body is still the only point of access to it.
If you saw an angel but mistook it for a stone statue, all you would have to do is adjust your vision and look more closely at the 'stone statue',... not start looking somewhere else. You would then find that there never was a stone statue.

Q: If belief in death creates the body, why does an animal have a body? An animal doesn't have an ego and it doesn't believe in death....

But it still dies, or seems to.
Remember that your perception of the world is a reflection of your state of conciousness. You are not separate from it, and there is no objective world out there. Every moment your conciousness creates the world that you inhabit. One of the greatest insights that has come out of modern physics is that of the unity between the observer and the observed: the person conducting the experiment; the observing conciousness, ... cannot be separated from the observed phenomena, and a different way of looking causes the observed phenomena to behave differently. If you believe on a deep level in separation and the struggle for survival, then you see that belief reflected all around you and your perceptions are governed by fear. You inhabit a world of death and of bodies fighting, killing and devouring eachother.
Nothing is what it seems to be. The world that you create and see through the egoic mind may seem a very imperfect place, even a vale of tears. But whatever you percieve is only a kind of symbol, like an image in a dream. It is how your conciousness interprets and interacts with the molecular energy dance of the universe. This energy is the raw material of so-called physical reality. You see it in terms of bodies and birth and death, or as a struggle for survival."

continued next post ....

 

"... An infinite number of completely different interpretations, completely different worlds is possible, and in fact, exists - all depending on the percieving conciousness. Every being is a focal point of conciousness, and every such focal point creates it's own world, although all those worlds are interconnected. There is a human world, an ant world, a dolphin world, and so on. There are countless beings whose conciousness frequency is so different from yours that you are probably unaware of their existence, as they are of yours. Highly concious beings who are aware of their connectedness with the source and with eachother would inhabit a world that to you would appear as a heavenly realm - and yet all worlds are ultimately one.
Our collective human world is largely created through the level of conciousness we call mind. Even within the collective human world there are vast differences, many different 'sub-worlds', depending on the percievers or creators of their respective worlds. Since all worlds are interconnected, when collective human conciousness becomes transformed, nature and the animal kingdom will reflect that transformation. Hence the statement in the bible that in the coming age "The lion shall lie down with the lamb." This points to the possibility of a completely different order of reality.
The world as it appears to us now is, as i said, largely a reflection of the egoic mind. Fear being an unavoidable consequence of egoic delusion. It is a world dominated by fear. just as the images in a dream are symbols of inner states and feelings, so our collective reality is largely a symbolic expression of fear and of the heavy layers of negativity that have accumulated in the collective human psyche. We are not separate from our world, so when the majority of humans become free of egoic delusion, this inner change will reflect all of creation. You will literally inhabit a new world. It is a shift in planetary conciousness. The strange buddhist saying that every tree and blade of grass will eventually become enlightened points to the same truth. - according to St. Paul, the whole of creation is waiting for humans to become enlightened, - that is how i interpret his saying that "The created universe is waiting with eager expectation for god's sons to be revealed." St.Paul goes on to say that all of creation will become redeemed through this: "Up to the present ... the whole created universe in all it's parts groans as if in the pangs of childbirth."
What is being born is a new conciousness and, as it's inevitable reflection, a new world. This is also fortold in the new testament book of revelation: "Then i saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."
But don't confuse cause and effect. Your primary task is not to seek salvation through creating a better world, but to awaken out of identification with form. You are then no longer bound to this world, this level of reality. - You can feel your roots in the unmanifested and so are free of attatchment to the manifested world. You can still enjoy the passing pleasures of this world but there is no fear of loss anymore, so you don't need to cling to them. Although you can enjoy sensory pleasures, the craving for sensory experience is gone, as is the constant search for fulfillment through psychological gratification, through feeding the ego."

...more next

 

" .... You are in touch with something infinitely greater than any pleasure, greater than any manifested thing. - In a way you don't need the world anymore. You don't even need it to be different from the way it is.
It is only at this point that you begin to make a real contribution toward bringing about a better world, toward creating a different order of reality. It is only at this point that you are able to feel true compassion and to help others at the level of cause. Only those who have transcended the world, can bring about a better world.
You may remember that we talked about the dual nature of true compassion, which is awareness of a common bond of shared mortality and immortality (Back in the book somewhere). At this deep level, compassion becomes healing in the widest sense. In that state your healing influence is primarily based not on doing but on Being. Everybody you come into contact with will be touched by your presense and affected by the peace that you emanate, whether they are concious of it or not. When you are fully present and people around you manifest unconcious behaviour, you won't feel the need to react to it, so you don't give it any reality. Your peace is so vast and deep that anything that is not peace dissappears into it as if it had never existed. This breaks the karmic cycle of action and reaction. Animals, trees, flowers, will feel your peace and respond to it. You teach through being, through demonstrating the peace of god. You become 'the light of the world', an emanation of pure conciousness, and so you eliminate suffering on the level of cause. You eliminate unconciousness from the world."

roof read and corrected by LL

 

LL, I think you could save a lot of trouble by posting me off copies of the books (teasing tone)