Atheists- What do you believe in?

i believe in a probability based universe. one in which, believe it or not, having a conscience protects one from making the odds for themselves worse, more often then not.

one in which nothing has to be known, or even pretended to be known in order to exist, nor is anything that does, obliged to resemble whatever any one or any belief arbitrarily presupposes about it.

thus, while one, or even many, well meaning awairnessess, "close enough" to god or gods "for government work" may very well, and likewise probably do exist, far more of the conditions we experience, aside from nature, i.e. the web of life our existence depends upon, are entirely up to the incentives we togather, and for the most part, unconscously, ourselves create.

(p.s. probablility is NOT "randomness", NOR the willful direction of a self awaire intent, though by no means excluding the possibility of one or more existing as well)

=^^=
.../\...

 

Dejavu

Then you agree?

Occam

 

Themnax

Yes. A conscience is in my opinion a survival trait. It does indeed
help to stack the odds for continued existance.
Along with reason and imagination. It allows us to be more than just 'survival'.
ie
'i shed tears for the lost potential of children'
What can i do to improve their odds?.. educate them.

Probabillity is the core of my belief system.
It requires much information from many sources to even hint at becomming valid.
This is why books and writen language are so important.

If i may be so bold. Your lateral way of expression is
a delight to read and know exists.

Occam

 

My friend, it has no face recognizable as huamn to us. Any human face we see through meditation or trance as a "god" or higher power is simply a perfect example of how deeply and totally we strive to idolize ourselves. Humanity is an ego-maniac.

 

Hypocrit.

When has occam ever said he 'sees' though meditation or trance.?
Some may benefit from it.. It ay well gain much insight into oneself.
But no amount of meditation will tell u how a singularity exists.
Or if if the laws that allow such are directed.

We may leave this universe by our own wit.
Simply means.
We will evolve beyond the restrictions of this small part of reality
called 'our universe'.
As we evolved beyond being held to the surface of earth by gravity.

Occam

 

I believe in people and humankind, but then again I'm a bit of humanist, still an atheist though.

 

I believe in atheistic existentialism and preference utilitarianism. I believe in pacifism, i believe cannabis should be legalized. I believe there is no soul or afterlife. I believe in self-determination. I believe there is no objective morality, i believe in absolute freedom. I believe in the harm principal. I believe in anarchism but if i wanted to partake in politics that actually have a chance at succeeding. I'd be an individualist liberal capitalist, focusing on negative liberty.

 

i love to hug the big, friendly and invisible, and all the little friendly and invisibles too, which makes me an agnostic rather then an athiest, and to my mind, that is a complete and obvious distinction, with no ambiguity about it at all.

the one thing i really don't believe in, is that the existence of them, in any way makes it possible for us, to forever get away with, the irrational, irresponsible, and self deceptive ways of life, fanatacism of every stripe insists upon.

but i really do believe that we have friends, that we don't have to lie to ourselves and pretend that we know anything about, in order to do them honor and give them our love.

=^^=
.../\...

(and occam, its always a pleasure to hear from your sane mind too. to know that there actually still are such things.)

=^^=
.../\...

 

There is nothing, paradoxically, from that nothing is everything.

 

Sounds very mystical.

 

reefer

Your on THE path.[the one that avoids the piles of bullshit]
Well said.

Occam

 

Atheists- What do you believe in?

Well we do not believe in God for starters. Does it follow then that we fall into a self-reflexive Solipsism. No. It just means that we do not believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden.

 

Pineapple

But through scientific method.. you DO know that that
you dont know all the answers.. [just like me]
Correct?
Can you speculate the origin of our universe, its laws and its
function. Without contradiction?

I can. And that speculation says a designer. is VERY high on the
list of THE possible ways what we see about us came to be.
[observable reality]
Athiesm has one HUGE flaw..
It speculates that all is a product of chance. Yet does not
wish to ask what objective laws drive chance came from.

If the laws of our universe are 'chance'. Then the laws.
Gravity/entropy/em/magnetism/dynamism/processing[time]
All also 'but chance'
Random chance has made a mass of ballanced laws all intermeshing to produce a ballanced universe.
That results in superclusters/galaxies/solar systems.
Planets/biosheres.
Life/phyla and virii
Dynamic symbitic/aggregated biologics
us
That result in Love.
And all in the speck of time called '14billion cycles of this world'
ie.. an eyeblink

Sure.
To me an athiest is just a theist who calls god 'random chance'

Occam

 

Hello again

What I am arguing against is the concept of a personal God, that is a God that inhabits and is a causal agent in this universe. By a personal God I simply mean a God who who has particular regard for humans and intervenes in this would on our behalf. This is precisely what gives meaning to and informs the concept god for most theists. If there is no personal God which this self regulating universe would suggest then whats the point of the great monolithic religions. There position stands or fulls on the point of a personal God in my opinion.

Science thus far has given us a credible account and reasonable explanation of most of what we see around us including the laws that regulate and give form to the world we see. Yes the four fundamental forces of nature seem to be finely tuned indeed as if they were like multiple sides of the same one coin, which they may be. We will never be able to design an experimental apparatus big enough to find out.

Maybe the universe required a designer to set it all in motion to begin with. However I do not not know how we could acquire any knowledge of anything that transpired before or stands out side our universe. Maybe we should apply the principle of well Occam's razer on this one. In any case to solve the problem of an improbably universe by invoking a even more improbably God just makes things more difficult not less.

May be we did win the lottery, people do you know despite the odds. The chances of being born in the first place were very slight indeed.

 

Good point, and one which oddly seldom comes up in these discussions about fine tuning, first causes, I.D., etc. Science and logic can't answer that question, and quite frankly, I don't have an answer in which I'm completely confident. I am completely confident that the core values embodied in Jesus' teachings are ones that I accept as my own--as a matter of personal choice and temperment. I also think I've given good reasons in previous posts for placing my bet that the universe isn't merely the result of "blind" forces and good luck. The remaining questions though--does God know and care about us, is (S)he even aware we exist, is (S)he good, bad, indifferent, or some combination of the above--are things I have more trouble with, and tend to proceed on instinct, fully aware I could be wrong. Life is a gamble, it comes down to that. Since I'm basically an optimist, I'm betting on a benevolent God who cares, and plays a part in our finest ideals and achievements, although there's certainly enough evil, strife and grief in the world to provide ammunition for the opposite conclusion.

 

Hi again

"You are but a speck of redundant protoplasm on some rock in
the low rent district of our observable universe.
Just like occam."

From the point of view of a living organism like us we live in a paradise compared to the environment that awaits us a mere few miles above our heads. There maybe very few habitable places in the universe like this one, in fact probably none, considering that we evolved in the specific conditions that pertain here. Hardly low rent from our point of view. We cannot afford to be to subjective about all this.

 

LOL
Hey, i own my domicile.. as much as anything can be owned.

You imply Life and freedom, liberty and justice, love and beauty.
Are exclusive to carbon life in carbon life zones.
By what precedent?
Life is just as likely on the surface of neutron stars or the atmospher of gas giants.

Occam

 

Hi

"You imply Life and freedom, liberty and justice, love and beauty.
Are exclusive to carbon life in carbon life zones.
By what precedent?"

Probably by my own narrow perspective and learning. However are there infinite possibilities in this regard or are we trying to climb mount improbable through the power of thought. Yes the condition here made it possible for us to win the lotto in the first place.

"Life is just as likely on the surface of neutron stars or the atmospher of gas giants"

Would you put good money on either of those two. You have plenty of guts on these ones. That said you do have a better grasp of the cosmological arguments than this person does.

 

I just believe.. that everyone is connected through spirituality, but we use religion to help us explain that (whether it's true or not) - I don't believe theirs a divine, BUT I think that we create our own divine, the human conscious is the "divine", thats who we pray to, thats who we ask for help.. it's just ourselves making ourselves feel better, its just the complex human mind making us perceive these weird and abstract ideas.. that's just my theory, I think anything and everything can be scientifically explained somehow

and think of this - if there was a divine, would it also be controlling other lifeforms other than ones JUST on Earth? - say theres aliens in another solar system that we haven't found yet, would they have the same "God" as us? - just something to think about, I've never heard that question pop up before.. just thought I'd ask

 

Yes the workings of the human mind are not that well understood yet. Theres a long way to go there.

Well more Gods have been invented here on earth here then there are hairs on your head.