Atheists religions; a rose by another name

If Billy Graham is it, I'm asking you to post some of what he writes that makes you arrive at that conclusion.

 

Is this a debate? Like you win a prize if you feel I’m wrong? Lol

If you feel there is no logic in faith beliefs, nothing I share will change that. I’m not saying I do or don’t believe it, but there are people who clearly think that. People don’t follow something that they deem illogical. Secularly or faith-wise.

 

Faith does not require logic,
Because logic requires faith.

 

You win the internet today!

 

I was always a spiritual being in that I had respect for all living things......I believe in Bambi and Charolottes web and so on....a kinder world...a child's, pure wolrd......this has always been me....I know who I am and I never needed religion to tell me who I am.

 

I'm trying to make it a discussion, isn't that why we're all here?

All I asked was you to provide some examples of Billy Graham showing his faith is logical.

You really think people don't follow illogical things? You think the people of Heaven's Gate who committed mass suicide to supposedly board an alien spacecraft were thinking logically?

 

It feels like a contest.

He thought it was logical.

Lol Of course, but THEY thought it was logical. Why would someone do anything at all that they felt had no logic? I guess we could say some live their lives solely by emotion but still.

 

Logic is merely another belief, that only has demonstrable meaning in specific contexts. Only when you can approach logic pragmatically and humorously can you appreciate how it applies in specific contexts. When logic and emotion are inseparable, they will inevitably transform into one another, for without faith in our own memories, dreams, and awareness there can be no logic.

 

I think we're talking past each other due to semantics. You seem to be using logic in a more colloquial way, I already stated I meant logic in a more formal way. It's like when people use the word theory. Theory in a scientific context has a very precise meaning as opposed to the more common use by people where theory is essentially interchangeable with the word idea.

So The Heaven's Gate people likely thought the idea made sense to them, largely based on their emotions and faith, but they didn't think through if the conclusion would follow from premises that were true.

 

I know how you are defining it. I think I’m some cases, many are indoctrinated into certain beliefs since childhood and honestly don’t see any other option as conclusive other than what they have been brainwashed to believe. Look at suicide bombers. They have thought it through in some cases but only as much as their brainwashed minds can conclude. So to pin your logic onto someone else, while I get it, I think for some they have thought it through. If you seek to change minds from illogical thinking to logical, you have to know your audience and not assume that their sense of logic is like yours. I believe in God. And I feel it’s logical based on my days as an atheist and what I feel is valuable. I can’t prove my beliefs to you but likewise, you can’t prove that my beliefs are false. That’s the beauty and difficulty of faith.

What makes an atheist’s views anymore credible than a believer’s?

 

"Logic, logic, logic. Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end."

-Spock

 

As I alluded to in post 58, I have a yearning to discuss these things in a formal way. It doesn't necessarily mean I actually expect to.

The problem of Evil to me stands as the testament to disproving the idea of God in a traditional sense and making the atheist's view more credible. Evil in light of the idea of an omnibenevolence, omnipresence, omnipotence, etc is hard to defend and all the responses of theodicy I've come across are extremely weak in my view, such as God temporarily limiting his powers to allow for free will, at that point we're practically turning the concept of God into a medieval comic book character.

There is also this omnipotence paradox that presents a similar problem The Simpsons addressed in a more humorous light.




If we take your phrase "Higher Power" as you used earlier, I'm assuming you're not necessarily imaging God in the same light as the traditional view. If God is to be re-imagined then it is up to the believer to provide clear definition(s) as to what properties that Higher Power possesses, otherwise it remains a nebulous concept, as I mentioned earlier, which we cannot really point to anything to show an existence or lack thereof, rendering it practically a meaningless concept.

 

Ignorant Wisdom

The bullshit that everyone experiences is not always true,
The abstract bullshit everyone tends to imagine is never real.
Ignorance manifests any bullshit that happens and may happen;
Whatever bullshit we use to represent all that exists and could exist.
To experience ignorance without abstract bullshit is to sense the world;
Where experiencing abstract bullshit from ignorance is to know the world.
These experiences can be indistinguishable from any other kind of bullshit;
Their construction differs but their effect on various bullshit is the same.
Beyond the gateway of experience flows the wisdom of our ignorance,
Which, is ever greater and more subtle, than any ordinary bullshit.​

 

Some of that takes practice and education though, which inevitably takes time and interest for one to examine their thinking. With the instant gratification of the internet, it's quite difficult to get essentially anonymous people to want to pursue such development.

 

Or maybe your condescending tone prevents a healthy discussion that really is only about you trying to make believers look foolish.

 

How am I being condescending?

 

You're a real negative Nancy if you're going to shit all over a Spock quote.

 

Hot Blooded

The truth had to come out eventually,
But, Yoda is the love child of Spock,
And an Andorean sex slave.
Jim Henson is rolling over in his grave!
Ms Piggy is Kermit the Frog's half sister!​

 

Sweet Christmas

 

Apparently, his ears were not the only pointy thing about Spock, and women loved that raised eyebrow.