Atheist on LSD/DMT/Psychedelics

Hello

No I am the one asking the question, and I am in no mood to answer my own question.

 

Yes, and it should be pointed out that most atheists who come at the issue from a scientific perspective are "weak" atheists, and that "weak" atheism is the logically stronger case. "Strong" atheism is logically unsupportable, a mistake in thinking just like theistic faith. It may surprise some to learn that people like Richard Dawkins are by this definition "weak" atheists...

 

Yes you cannot really prove or disprove this idea

 

I'd go one step further and say that declaring something "supernatural" should be a red rag to the scientific bull. Nature is the label we give to everything that can happen; if something appears to occur in contradiction to nature, it is our definition that is wrong. "Supernatural" seems so often to be used by those who want to hang their own theories on unexplained phenomena, which I find quite sad, as those individuals not only have no interest in seeing such phenomena explained, they actually have an interest in KEEPING them unexplained.

 

This is why I prefer "dumb" and "smart" atheism. "Weak" and "strong" implies that there is some weakness in admitting that you don't know something.

 

I'm asking you why I'm a stupid atheist.

 

I never accused you of being a stupid atheist. I am probably more than over qualified to take that position myself thank you very much.

 

well, you asked if there were any smart atheists. which implies that we were all being dumb.

or did you mean 'smart' as in 'weak'... like that other person explained

 

Lunatox,

Your point of view seems to be heavily dependent on fantasy and misconceptions that there are no limitations to energy. Just because our knowledge of the universe and its workings are incomplete does not mean EVERYTHING we dream and fantasize about are possible. For a God concept to exist there must be absolutely no limitations to energy but there are many limitations! From speed of light to human suffering, the universe is painfully imperfect. Time itself is a limitation. We all have expiry dates as individuals, as planets, as suns, most likely the entire universe itself will collapse and the whole cycle will start over. This REALITY does not fit with a God, or eternal consciousness fantasy concept. Anyone who believe it does is living in dreamland.

 

Once again I am in no mood to answer my own question.


On point two we and many others are in agreement for very good reasons.

 

Drugs alter your senses, there's nothing supernatural about it, however incredible is the experience.

 

Religion is an attempt to describe the psychedelic experience, not the other way around.

 

So because the universe is imperfect, it cannot have been designed? Why would you think that?

 

My point of view actually falls in line with a few quantum mechanics theories about multiple dimensions and parallel universes. There are a few theories which actually point towards infinity. Infinity in time, infinity in the number of universes that exist. I believe everything we dream of is a reality in some universe, at some point in time, that doesn't mean I think everything we dream of is our reality in this universe at this point in time, and never said I did. It still comes to pass you have just as little evidence as proof against any god as anyone has proof for any god.

All you have is speculation, that's all I have. The difference is I can sit here and say, I may not be right, and you sit there and say (just like a fundamentalist christian) that you ARE right ABSOLUTELY and that anyone who thinks otherwise is "living in dreamland". Which is what I hate about atheists like you to begin with, you're no different from the religious counterparts you hate.

What does death and the knowing that all things are impermanent change anything? Nothing lasts but nothing is lost. Again, my argument still stands, you have no idea what god would or wouldn't look like be like or exist like, you have no idea how much energy god would need, be, or anything of the sort. As far as I'm concerned, "God" is energy, because that's what makes everything tick. And that energy is coursing through us now, and is what connects us to everyone and everything that lives and breathes on this earth. I never think of "god" as a conscious being, just the subconscious ebb and flow of everything. I don't see anything wrong with this idea just because there are limits on energy.

But whatever, I suppose I'm just another deluded human being living in a dreamland.

 

But how do the universes distribute themselves for the common energy they have? The only way is that the total energy in one of the universes is exactly the same as in the other. If there are different energies than we are under a delusion of Being in different realities from the one distrbuting.

On the other hand, the universe may have parralelism with somewhere else which means that it's all more meaningful then we can ever know.

God would mean we do know in the sense that He knows to acquaint US.

 

Theoretical physics should not be confused with science

 

Why would I hold on to a weak unsubstantiated conviction of ignorance that the universe was designed by an imperfect flawed mortal finite creature? Or why would I hold on to an even more improbable conviction of ignorance that the universe was created by omnipotent eternal consciousness?

 

Well I'd love to believe that in some distant universe I'm REALLY having crazy sex with multiple women and the dream I had last night was some wormhole into that dimension. In REALITY there's more than a 99.9999999% probability that it's this thing we have in our minds called IMAGINATION!

Anyone claiming equal probability for and against God clearly isn't thinking with the reality perception part of their brain on this. As unlikely as my porno dimension is, the likelihood of an eternal consciousness great creator is even less probable than that!

 

I don't even believe in creationism, and never said I did. As far as I'm concerned existence has always existed and will always exist. This universe might be 13.7 billion years old but there's no telling what existed before, and what will exist after this universe is gone.

You're also taking my words out of context. I didn't mean everything we DREAM while we sleep, I meant everything we can dream of, ideas and such, and I'm sure you understood that. You're not even arguing with me anymore, because there's not a god damn intelligent thing you can say against the fact that you don't have any proof that anything I can imagine doesn't exist, except to say I have no proof that it does.

You need to be seriously humbled, I'd hate to see how an egotistical ass like you interacts with people on a day to day basis.

Oh and did you do that 99.99% calculation yourself, or did you get that from some study somewhere?

 

no one can calculate the 'probability' of the universe coming about because of an eternal consciousness vs. no explination. if someone tries to, then they are doing something wrong, because we have no way of comparing a universe just like our own which was created by an infinite consciousnes, verses a universe just like our own which was created by a less than infinite consciousness, verses the universe just existing without a creator, etc. since we cannot distinguish these cases in any tangible or mathematical way, it is impossible to apply probability to them