Astral plane

Discussion in 'Psychic' started by bluesafire, Feb 6, 2009.

  1. bluesafire

    bluesafire Senior Member

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    Your dreams/experiences remind me of the Celestine Prophecy. Have you gleaned some purpose to those encounters? Did they spark some kind of insight for you or was it just the fact of there being a synchronicity that made it seem significant?
     
  2. liquidlight

    liquidlight Senior Member

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    Often there seems to be no real significance, but there doesn't need to be ... it's just a way of seeing or navigating ... mutch like we do in waking reality, but being able to connect both and see them as the same ... the dream coming first (experientally) and then the outer 'catching up' or converging with it later( experientally) often gives me reassurance and often teaches me that i can't put a foot wrong in a strange sense ... as if everything is meant to be the way it is, because the dream originated from spirit ... and this body/mind just follows the dream. For instance, that dream was over two months ago now and only two days ago i made another connection with it so it's telling me that although i decided to come to wales a few weeks ago and only just arrived... in a sense i was already here over two months ago. I've been wondering what the hell i'm doing here y'know? But having made that connection with Lynn i realise it's all a bigger picture i can't totally see ... so i feel reassured ... like i'm 'meant' to be here.
    Another purpose of my dreaming is simply about learning about dreaming ... heck, someone has to learn these things.
     
  3. Cherea

    Cherea Senior Member

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    My experience is materialist. I have no clue what mind or spirit might mean. I have not experienced them. I also have no evidence of the objective reality of anything (including myself), those seem to be assumptions.

    On a practical level (which is different from saying this is an objective truth) all my experiences tend to be tied to my body and the material existence of things which appear to be separate from my body.

    Even the experience of connection to things outside of my body and it's psychological manifestations...the experience of "oneness" or "nothingness" so to speak, I do not attribute to something spiritual, paranormal, or extra-material.

    I think however that being is paradoxically suffused by nothingness since being is not static. As it constantly changes, it is hard for me to establish what material being "is." Being seems to be (at least from one perspective) the same as nothingness, and vice-versa.

    So I would say, on the one hand there appears to be a material/practical experience, and on the other one of nothingness, which transcends the boundaries of the material but is nothing (as opposed to a somethingness rarefied or spiritual). It is also appearance. Appearance is all I've got (and therefore surface/perspective).
     
  4. liquidlight

    liquidlight Senior Member

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    So it sounds to me like you're keeping an open mind (even if you're not sure you even have a mind) and not making any hard and fast decisions about what your experience is... but would it do any harm to? If you found you were wrong would you learn anything? ... even if it all turned out to be a process of elimination before getting to something you considered real? Anyway, are you in the psychic forum because you're curious then?
     
  5. Cherea

    Cherea Senior Member

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    Like I said, I cannot intuitively fathom having rigid truths. Even the truth of not knowing I have to set aside on a daily basis to survive (materially).

    E.g., I have to assume the reality of cars driving in my direction before I move out of the way, etc.

    But aside from practical/material (as opposed to objective) truth, I have no inclination toward truth. If anything, the path of unknowing/unbelief brings me closer to happiness.

    I posted on the forum because of bluesafire. She's hot, married,and a MILF. The perfect unattainable dream. :cheers2:
     
  6. bluesafire

    bluesafire Senior Member

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    You know, this is also helpful to keep in mind when we become unhappy. Because when we scratch the surface of that unhappiness just a little bit we often find thoughts that we believed to be true. And what happens is that we react to that thought (which is what emotion is... the body's reaction to a thought) and make ourselves unhappy. Thoughts like "I'm not good enough", etc. etc. :) If we can just question those thoughts and introduce a little doubt as to their "absolute truth" then we can return to that blissful peace of "not knowing". :D
     
  7. Cherea

    Cherea Senior Member

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    You're perfect. An absolute truth.
     
  8. lostminty

    lostminty Member

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    If I may interject,

    My experiences of life over my classical adulthood have been that of someone whom unsettles the enviroment. Not intruding so to speak, less there be people overly impressionable about. But never the less one that requires attention. I cannot count the number of messages I have received in waking life that were pure conicidence, not explicitly aimed.

    BUT, there have also been times, times when my mind is detached from the situation so well that it appears to warp peoples gaze upon me. And it builds an etheral link so to speak. One that is heavily fueled by my pscyhe, and as such my mental stability is in the hands of those around me.

    I can not explain this realm, only to say that it is something I barely approach anymore and that my mind was the play ground of people i didn't trust and whom will undoubtedly deny the full reality, even though their awareness does break into this realm from time to time.
     
  9. liquidlight

    liquidlight Senior Member

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    I must admit i'm not thinking too hard about all this but truth is just what is ... whatever is our reality is our truth and that may change according to our experience ... but it's always truth as we see it ... until it changes. As far as looking any deeper into it, perhaps for meaning one either wishes to or not, does or doesn't. Not knowing is great if we can allow ourselves to ... some people... like me, are curious and always want to know why, but i can't always know why. My wish to understand is a huge burden sometimes .. i find it's often best not to ask questions in the first place and try and just let things be as they are for whatever reason. Yes i'm happier then .... when i'm not asking questions.

    Oh, by the way ... i wonder if it would suit you if ALL women were unattainable? I don't see blues as being 'unnattainable' ... i mean i can talk to her can't i? ... that's attainable. And to look at women as a symbol in this sense ...a symbol of something, would it make that something unnattainable also? Everyone suffers from issues of self esteem .. either high or low and i'm wondering if this is to to with self worth ... if to feel worthy or equal, would suddenly, magically, make women attainable? I should post this all in your other thread really but hey ...
    Robert graves is a great Author who i know has touched on these issues, particularly in his book 'The white Goddess' ... try some google searches in relation to him (or otherwise) for: 'The sacred prostitute' and 'The harlot goddess'.
     
  10. Cherea

    Cherea Senior Member

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    Not asking questions is not what I meant. I think it's more asking questions without giving a final answer. Although we all need practical (surface) answers in our everyday lives. I like what Nietzsche said, "Truth is a necessary error." :D

    Please post in my other thread if you wish. What I said about bluesy was tongue-in-cheek. But yeah, the issue with the opposite sex is there. I don't think the intellectual route is going to take me anywhere (albeit the titles you suggested sound juicy). I just came out of a coffee shop where they were playing "If I Were A Boy" and I'm wishing instant death upon all women. And yes, I feel inferior (or superior, which amounts to the same) to them. But it matters little.

    Edit: All except prostitutes. I feel a (false?) kinship with them. They are the only attractive women I can voice my desires to without being rejected/ignored/ridiculed a priori. Through the medium of money I can buy my (false/psychological) chance of being desired back (but not as an article of possession). Or at least I can use them (their bodies) back, since women use me (through rejection, disregard, ridicule) as a mechanism of egocentric self-elevation.
     
  11. liquidlight

    liquidlight Senior Member

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    Yes i think you're right ... the intellectual route isn't going to help anyone. I suppose i'm saying that this 'issue with the opposite sex' is common and recognised enough for some people to write about. I've seen it in myself to some extent and recognised certain characteristics in a few ex girlfriends ... they're very independent and free thinking ... they would love men and care for men but were unlikely at the time to be tied down to a relationship with one man ... there were insecurities too, and self esteem issues but these were not your average women ... they had learned a certain freedom and independence.
    ... but i'll take further discussion to the other thread :)
     
  12. bluesafire

    bluesafire Senior Member

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    what other thread?
     
  13. Cherea

    Cherea Senior Member

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    I think liquidlife is referring to my thread in Dreams, titled Old Prostitution Dream.
     
  14. Cherea

    Cherea Senior Member

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    My recurrent experience is the opposite. I have the subjective impression that women do not desire men, or not as much, or not in the same way. But I'll be happy to await your response in the other thread. I think you'd have valuable things to say.
     
  15. bluesafire

    bluesafire Senior Member

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    People both desire and fear intimacy. There are many things they do to keep it at bay and to keep themselves defended & protected. Sometimes they project that fear onto others, attracting or being attracted to people who are unavailable in some way. Demonizing or idealising someone is the same thing... taking their simple "humanness" away from them and putting them out of reach. It's a way of setting up the relationship to fail, to reinforce our fears that nobody will love us.

    Often we repeat the patterns instilled in us in early childhood, where we have an almost infantile need for that oceanic sense of oneness with "mother" which was denied us in some way, or resulted in our emotional needs not being met. So we grow up to crave this connection on a very primal level, and constantly turn to others to fulfill that need, while hating them for feeling so powerless in their presence and for being so vulnerable to rejection, which deep down we know is coming.

    Of course everyone experiences this differently and with varied degrees of intensity. The push/pull in relationships is a common dynamic. And really, the pattern evidenced here is just an example of the deeper pattern where "mother" is symbolic of "Source" or "God", who we feel has abandoned us, but whom.. deeper within the furthest recesses of our being., we know we have turned away from. And the guilt that has arisen as a result of this has been unbearable, which is why we so readily project it onto "others". This guilt, by the way, is entirely of our own making, having originated by an insane mind.

    So we go around manifesting abandonment as a self fulfilling prophecy, playing out the pattern over and over to "punish" ourselves for the guilt we feel over abandoning the Godsource.

    The way to turn all this around is through forgiveness, to SEE the pattern which we're acting out and change our focus in relationships from one of Getting to one of Giving. It is only when we GIVE love to others (including tolerance and compassion) that we realize we've had it ourselves all along, that it was always within us, and that our supposed abandonment was all a figment of our imagination.

    A few weeks before I met my current husband I had a spontaneous prayer that welled up in my heart. And it was for God to help me learn to love unconditionally. For the past 10 years I've been learning just that. And it's been the most difficult, challenging, and JOYFUL experience of my life. I don't claim mastery or that I've learned this perfectly or anything like that... but my awareness of it has grown by leaps and bounds. The key is always... what can I GIVE here, how can I UNDERSTAND MORE... how can I stretch my boundary and my capacity beyond what I always thought was possible? The willingness is the key, just simply being willing to love without expectation, and to give without demand to get attached to it. This isn't about martyrhood or becoming a doormat, because that's just a silly game and not about love at all. What this is is the realization deep down inside that I NO LONER WANT SEPARATION.
     
  16. liquidlight

    liquidlight Senior Member

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    - that's very well said!

    - Sure perhaps they're married or too young although i feel in these cases it probably more just attention that people want... but then there are people who actually are available but we make them unavailable ... the people we actually could be with but deny somehow, undermining and sabotaging the relationship from the outset ... it seems there's a million excuses. It makes me really sad reading all this and it's really hurting actually and also making me feel angry, how people hide from love and eachother, but worst of all how people can make an enemy out of their 'loved one' and really hurt someone because their own lack of worth is unable to do otherwise.
    I am reminded tonight how utterly and deeply sensitive people are underneath all the bravado.

    I think one of my sigs' is very worth remembering for me right now:
     
  17. bluesafire

    bluesafire Senior Member

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    what I find interesting is that people often want what they can't have, and if they find that they CAN have it then they DON'T want it as much. Also people want what is forbidden or taboo, in other words, there must be some kind of struggle about it. One example is the situation where someone wants to sneak around and have an affair, but if they find out they can have the relationship in an open and honest environment (no sneaking, lying, or hiding) then they balk.

    Yes, forgive them for they know not what they do. :)

    oh yes.
     
  18. liquidlight

    liquidlight Senior Member

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    I'm trying to understand this quote ... can you help me out blues?
     
  19. zengizmo

    zengizmo Ignorant Slut HipForums Supporter

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    The psychiatrist M. Scott Peck made this same point in his book, The Road Less Travelled, if you'd like a thorough explanation - and an interesting read!
     
  20. lostminty

    lostminty Member

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    sounds a lot like victor frankels work

    He was in concentration camp's and came up with a way of framing suffering not as some kind of thing to avoid because that is impossible...but to make sense of why it is so and find reason to move on
     

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