Are women biologically programmed to reward cruelty, evil and domination?

I would only say that rage is rarely a useful emotion when peace is the goal. It blinds, it divides, it clouds your vision and darkens your ambitions. Fear, rage and hatred will taint any endeavor they fuel. Hope, love, compassion, mercy, courage... these serve far better. But are far more difficult to attain.

 

In college I hated the inefficiency of circle-talk groups where we discussed how events made us feel. My only feeling was rage and hate.

It is true that even in college, after my reformation, I was still only concerned about injustices against me. And so women's problems were still a minor background issue for me. And in fact at Frat U I was more hate-filled towards females than I had ever been in HS or JRHS. Its not that I hated all females. But I considered pretty much all college girls to be disgusting whores and hated them for it. I even felt they deserved to be hurt and humiliated. Not by frat boys who were even worse. But I felt a honorable person had a right to be incredibly cruel to all "bad" females. They didn't even deserve the label female and should be treated as harsh as any male enemy. So I didn't hate "good females" but all through my first college I didn't really know any "good". But I mellowed out about that in my second college. And the first seeds about the female perspective began to develop leading to my collapse.

Well in HS the one time I had considered going out with a girl was because I though I could protect her virginity. But I lost some interest in her when I found out she was already tainted.

 

You say these are the feelings you held in the past. Yet you still talk with such vehemence about 'good girls' and 'bad girls, about sluts and whores and girls being 'tainted' as if you still feel that the act of sex is somehow disgusting, corrupt or sinful, especially when willingly entered into by a woman. What a sad and disgusting idea. That such a wonderful aspect of humanity, such a pleasurable act, with such incredible potential for intimacy, love and understanding should be written off so completely. Should be blanketly labeled evil.

It seems to me you hated all women who didn't toe the line of what alpha male systems say women should do. Any woman who wasn't quiet, chaste and subservient to -your- desires. Such a position gives you no more moral high ground than those frat boys you despised. That female sexuality should so repulse you...

You hated the inefficiency of cooperation. It's true that cooperation is far less useful for creating short term results. But as far as long-term happiness and understanding, peacefulness, fairness and openness, those circle groups outweigh any sort of charismatic leadership a hundred fold. Your rage and hate blinded you to the possibility, created such impatience. That impatience leads to foolish and self-centered action.

You were only concerned about injustices to you, and therefor had no interest in justice at all. Such interest is merely greedy self-serving disguised as a desire for justice.

So in the end it seems you never even did try. You never had hope, never had any real compassion for anyone but yourself.

 

Oh man, being an enemy of modern feminism, I can't believe I'm saying this, but your rhetoric made me horny =P

What power and passion you display.

The "alpha male systems" line still makes me cringe, but "Any woman who wasn't quiet, chaste and subservient to -your- desires."!! Sexy. That's hitting the nail on the head, right there.

I mean:

That being said, as much as his views might piss you off, and his faith to PUA humor me -- enamdar (I looked and still spelled that wrong my first try!) has been remarkably open and I want to take this time to give him a little credit, and uh, maybe after you cool off, you can agree with me =P

 

His views frustrate me more than piss me off. Because he's intelligent and passionate and -wants- to do good, but cannot see any good in the world to support.

As for your opposition to feminism...well... You have some reason to. There are certainly seeds of misandery within the core of feminism. But if you've read his posts so far, you'll see that he seems to believe that a very misogynistic worldview is the central and dominant paradigm in the world today. And I am trying to show him that this ideology is -not- unopposed.

In actually, the most broken ideology that poisons feminism is a female version of -exactly- what much of feminism is railing against. Hate your enemy and you risk becoming them. Much of feminism, the positive and useful aspects, do not oppose -men- per se. At least I certainly don't. I simply oppose the type of men that men seem to continue to decide to put in charge. I oppose hyper-competitive behavior, I oppose rage based decision making. I oppose turning what one opposes into a monstrous evil in ones mind. I oppose 'might makes right', I oppose unfettered self-centered ambition.

But in all this, I try not to let it turn into hatred for the people who engage in the behavior I find troubling. And I most certainly don't use it all as an excuse to hate -Men- as a group. Some of the most caring, compassionate, selfless, loving, patient people I have known have been men.

 

I'm kind of just joining in here so may be a bit out of the loop...

But how are you supposed to maintain hope, love, and compassion if you are going with women that are sleeping around and giving all your love you two created away? As much as you seem to be telling this guy he does not understand the generalized female mentality and outlook of life you seem to be equally naive about the generalized males.

Anger is a very valuable emotion to a man and can fuel great things if its channeled properly which dont necessarily have to create peace but are not destructive either, our current society suppresses anger far more than I think you realize. So i think its not that he didnt have hope or compassion its that no one reciprocated it back to him. You are angry? Go cool off by playing video games, go see a movie, go see a therapist, go get counseling, takes these drugs, do this the safe way, etc. I'm not trying to speak on his behalf just things that entered my mind.

 

Ah, I do agree to a certain extent.

Anger can be turned into passion. I once directed it into great works of art, and humor. I want to write again, but I can't seem to find the passion. When I was an angry teenager, I couldn't get rid of the stuff.
I have also directed it into supporting the Steelers and the Penguins (but fuck the Pens right now, I'm not happy with them +_+) - this is a very good way to make friends in the city of Pittsburgh, as well as a very enjoyable way for me to pass some time, and get some blood pumping.

I have used my anger to stand up for those that I care about (without getting violent) - and I would be quite willing to do it again (depending on the circumstance, maybe even resorting to violence.)

At the end of the day, I know little of male vs female - I seem to have a rather androgynous personality - but I do know my anger. And I know my darkness. And my anger and my darkness are not always one and the same.


(Oh, and autumn, I did read your post, I just don't have much to say in response =) )

 

The mind is very powerful and convincing. You can find yourself, terrified watching a movie even though the movie is staged and there is no possible way that the images can actually harm you.
Everything you see is an idea. The chair you sit on, the place you live in is an idea, a thing first conceived and then manifested. If you are satisfied then disregard what I am telling you.
The philosophers stone, that which turns that which is base, to that which is fine, is forgiveness. As long as you insist the world is so, it will be so for you, but it will not be so for everyone else and you will remain lonely.

 

Well, this is wandering off-track some. He seems to have an issue with women being open to or interested in -any- sex outside of a deeply committed relationship. He gave up on some girl because he discovered she'd been 'tainted'. His overall views are very very anti-sex in general. So this is what I'm responding to.

As for the issues around monogamy, I don't think either sex has a monopoly on cheating. I'm personally opposed to socially coerced monogamy. It doesn't work. The vast majority of monogamous people cheat at some point. This creates an atmosphere of distrust.

Besides, I don't see how sleeping with another affects a relationship. It's simply pleasure. I love to know my loved ones are experiencing pleasure. Obviously if it detracts from the relationship itself, some sort of arrangement is needed. Communication is key in any relationship. But enforced or coerced monogamy just seems wrong. Why would I want to limit my love's happiness? Why would I want to be with someone who wished to limit mine? Jealousy seems so petty, and possessiveness frightening.

Anger can be useful when fueled into short term goals. When used for anything that requires long-term thinking, it tends to cause major issues. There is a better answer to anger than repression though. Remorse, sadness, forgiveness. If men weren't taught that men don't cry, I feel they'd tend to be a lot less angry.

 

read up on phenomonological psychology..@OP

 

Anger when turned into passion, and mixed with hope or love, can be a beautiful thing, yes. Poetry, art, music, as well as simply getting things done. I know I've spoken with guys who channel their anger when they need to do heavy physical work. And it is sadly true that we do not live in a perfectly peaceful world, and sometimes anger is needed to defend oneself and those that one holds dear.

 

Well there is both change and continuity in my thinking. As early as first grade kids are incredibly cynical about the sugary niceness of Barney, Mr.Rogers, Sesame Street, Disney. But I guess I really took that simplistic morality to heart. And combined it with the Right makes Might ideas of saturday morning cartoons - Superman, Batman, Power Rangers. And while my ideas slowly matured in late elementary school replacing warriors for superheroes, the basic simplistic morality and violent Manicheanism remained. And much of my intense physical body building through HS and college was over naive belief there could be a boxing match between the good guys and bad guys that would decide everything. When it turned out that Evil did not even consider me significant enough to fight, kill and martyr, I was left with the fact that I would actually have to live under evil. My Disney morality is to a large extent what Nietzsche would call weak, feminine, slave morality. And my idea of evil is in many ways identical to a caricature of the worst aspects of hyper-masculinity. Although there is a certain masculine tinge to my morality- fighting fire with fire- and a touch of the old idea of Knighthood.

So I guess my current situation is far worse than if Evil had simply obliged to have a duel with me and killed me. I have to live in Evil's house under Evil's rules.

I just don't know where to go from here. And maybe it is simple weakness on my part. The prospect of living in a world of unopposed evil for the next few decades in hopes of a deus ex machina, seems like torture to me. Of course if it does come, then I'm a traitor and coward for wavering. I know 40 years or so are nothing after centuries of continuous progress. But the mostly deadly impact of those decades was not the cutting down of the trees of hope, but the poisoning of the seeds. A few trees coming down- thats a defeat. But the absence of any seeds- thats a barren and dead world. And thats what I've seen from GenY. Its worst in America. America has always been a cynical nation of pure practicality. But the last 40 years have seen the Americanization of the world. So the rest of the world ain't much better, in some ways worse. And the only international trend I see is Americanization. Which is why ideology is so important. The ideology of Americanism defines truth in a purely American world.

So on the one hand how idiotic to be dismayed by three decades of decline after millennial of progress. But on the other hand, as objective as I can be, all I see is the rise of more cynicism, brutality, greed, selfishness, individualism, sadism etc. I just can't see anything good coming.

And maybe it is selfish of me to be so short-term. I mean I can't see centuries ahead. But I'm pretty sure I'm stuck with Evil in my lifetime. Perhaps I ought to sacrifice myself for the next century. I can sacrifice blood, sweat, tears- death for the future. But I can't sacrifice- life. I can die for the future, but not live for it. The prospect of being stuck in THIS world the world as it is for the next few decades, terrifies me. It does indeed make a coward out of me.

Your heart seems to be in the right place so perhaps I ought not even talk to you. I believe I only deserve to talk to the evil and the contented. And I have no right to pollute the ears of the Good with my cowardly slime. IF you are on the road to Good, then just think of me as road-kill on the side of the road, ignore me and drive on.

For me History has ended and I only have a right to speak with those at the end of the road. If history has not yet ended for you- well then give it a happy ending this time.

 

You are sounding every bit as conceited as you claim him to be. I grew up pretty conservativly so my ideas of sex probably differ from yours but sleeping with another while in a monogamous relationship is a total lack of compassion and love to that person and selfish on your part.

Anger can be a spark to ignite people to long term goals, pratically every rebellion, uprising, usurping, boycott in history has been started by anger, look no further than your beloved feminism for a case and point.

 

I refuse. I do not give up easily.

You say that Evil is unopposed. But that is just because you have isolated yourself and see only evil. It is not unopposed. In fact, I don't even think good is outnumbered. I have seen great kindness and love in this world. Good is only outgunned. The paradigm you oppose has money and power and has a lot of control over the mass media. The most powerful method of transmitting ideas.

So you've picked the side of the underdog. But it's ok. Peace, love and harmony have pretty much -always- been outgunned. But we've been making progress nonetheless all throughout the past few centuries. It's slow progress but it is definitely progress. Peace, freedom, equality, all slowly arising. And so much progress in the last century. Giving up hope now, just due to some minor set backs...?

 

Well it is true that in HS I was basically opposed to all sex in general. The "tainted" girl in question- I had no idea whether or not she had been in a long-term relationship or if it were a casual hook-up. They were pretty much the same to me. I was still violently optimistic then so I certainly wasn't for voluntary human extinction. So I suppose I supported sex only in monogamous marriage although I wasn't very explicit on that point. I believed sex was for "adults" (late twenties maybe 30s). And that there was so much to be conquered for youths, that sex could only be a vulgar distraction.

So for males sex was a terrible distraction. And for females I suppose I took a rather traditional approach that it defiled them of their purity. I did believe, and to an extent still believe that youthful sex is inherently debasing to females.

But I now have a more sophisticated analysis. Our dominant ideology- evopsych- would put it all on supply and demand. Sperm-cheap, eggs-pricey. So for them any cavegirl who gave it away easy would be a fool. And since our brains are stone-age we still see it that way. In addition the girl is stuck with the bill of nursing the little brat. According to evopsych men re programmed to be jealous since they never know if the cavekid is his. PUAs adapt this view and celebrate and thus see all sex as violating conquest.

Well since thats the dominant ideology. It IS true for our historical society.

 

Whoa. How did you get those thoughts out of my head?

I wish I wasn't all sleepy and goofy and had something to actually say. But I do want to let you know that I feel very similar to that in bad times - and it's most always at the back of my head in the good times.

I dunno what to tell you, but that the fight between good and evil is much more complicated than it looks on paper -- and that good has won it's battles - continues to - and will continue to as long as there are just a few good to fight it.

You mentioned this man: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Rogers
Did you know:
He went to congress to save PBS, and ended up getting millions in more funding.

He helped fight for the rights of the VCR, allowing us to record his programming at home.

When his car was stolen and the news reported it, it was returned the next day with a note that said: "If we'd known it was yours, we would never have taken it."

Listen to this report of his Emmy Speech:
"Mister Rogers went onstage to accept the award — and there, in front of all the soap opera stars and talk show sinceratrons, in front of all the jutting man-tanned jaws and jutting saltwater bosoms, he made his small bow and said into the microphone, "All of us have special ones who have loved us into being. Would you just take, along with me, ten seconds to think of the people who have helped you become who you are. Ten seconds of silence." And then he lifted his wrist, looked at the audience, looked at his watch, and said, 'I'll watch the time." There was, at first, a small whoop from the crowd, a giddy, strangled hiccup of laughter, as people realized that he wasn't kidding, that Mister Rogers was not some convenient eunuch, but rather a man, an authority figure who actually expected them to do what he asked. And so they did. One second, two seconds, seven seconds — and now the jaws clenched, and the bosoms heaved, and the mascara ran, and the tears fell upon the beglittered gathering like rain leaking down a crystal chandelier. And Mister Rogers finally looked up from his watch and said softly "May God be with you," to all his vanquished children."

The true glory of good - is that it doesn't need evil.
Life is good. No death can ever change that.
Fuck Batman (that hurts to say), fuck Superman, fuck Power Rangers -- those sound to me to be the beginning of your unlearning.

 

Oh no, you misunderstand me. I'd never agree to be monogamous and then cheat, that would be awful. I simply don't agree that society should be so coercive about telling people they should be monogamous to begin with. And knowing myself, I'd never make such a promise. I've been in relationships where I actually -was- monogamous, but I have always been honest and told my partners that I make no promises that I will not sleep with another. If I choose to remain monogamous, it is my choice. But I refuse to be coerced.

Anger may have some ability to -start- things, but it tends to be less useful for staying the course. In actuality the rage and anger that continued, and continues, to pervade feminism is one of it's deepest flaws.

 

Peace is invulnerable to conflict.

 

Wow duck, that was awesome.

 

Ok I apologize for misinterpretting what you said but even with what you are saying here there seems to be a lack of respect or compassion towards the person. Its almost as if you are saying 'oh I'll be with you for now but if I find someone better..." it still comes off as selfish in my eyes. Its your life and I don't really care how you live it but I just found you to be somewhat judgemental in this and other threads. Trust me I rarely point fingers to really personal issues like this because I'm a plethora of social and psychological problems but I feel strongly enough about this to point that out, no offense.