Are the Democrats back on track?

Yeah, your country seems fucked. Not just because of the system though. If a majority of the voters would actually want it to change it could be done. But its not worth the short term risks thus the worthless status quo remains.

 

I think there is a problem of communication, it seems to me that often a complex and nuanced argument is reduced in translation to a soundbite or slogan.

This can be the fault of the media or candidate for similar reasons because a headline is easier to remember than the detail.

Now a lot of people understand that such slogans are just that, slogans, and do not take them seriously they instead try and discover the full policy.

So let’s take for example “Abolish ICE”

I’m not sure what AOC ideas are but my view would be that the US would still need to monitor customs and immigration but that ICE has become somewhat toxic and probably needs disbanding and the duties been given to other agencies or a new agency been created with better guidelines and ethos.

Some politicians mean to lie others because of modern media coverage seem like they are not been truthful.

A good example of where things can go wrong with a slogan is ‘Build a Wall’ and Mexico paying for it. This was a slogan that wasn’t meant to be taken literally and an out and out lie.

The idea was supposedly just an aid to memory for Trump to remember to bring up immigration the in the campaign. I think the ‘wall’ was meant as a kind of metaphor for better boarder security and ant-immigrant feeling. However this is an example of the candidate getting misled by his own slogan and it turned into an actual physical barrier made of concrete and stretching from sea to shining sea.

Trump then showed himself to be one of those politicians that is willing to lie by adding that Mexico would pay for the wall.

 

unfocused

I agree that the US has in the last 30 years drifted to the right because all the pull has been from the right. Wealth sponsored think tanks and lobbyists pushed neoliberal/free market economics and conservatives pampered to those with’ conservative social values’ (gun rights, Christian rights along with sexual and racial prejudices.)

But after 30 years the promised free market utopia has turned into industrial decline and an opioid crisis and the populations has grown up wanting more gun control and are that are more comfortable with sexual and racial integration.

So yes there needs to be a pull from the left and I hope AOC is part of that.

 

There are many states that now have open primaries. That would be a start for all states. But, to me, the solution is to not have primaries, especially ones that give the two major parties so much power. Let's just have a general election and, for president, the top vote getter wins and second place is VP. And do away with that Electoral College. You know, I saw a photo of the Clintons and the Gores together from the 90's. Interesting that three of the four had the most votes in a presidential election but only one was ever president. Without fact checking, I believe that the Electoral College, not the US voter, has decided five elections. And all five had a Republican with fewer votes winning.

 

yinz have wet dreams of nancy pelosi if you support this party..

 

The only decent Marxists.

 

One of the things that is helping the left Democrats (and the left) get back on track is that so many in the Republican Party (and the rest of the right) have so obviously revealed themselves and their philosophy to be mean, petty, self-serving and venal.

Increasingly the policies of the right have been shown up for the sham and con games they are.

It’s no wonder the base is shrinking and needs the crutch of gerrymandering and dirty tricks to retain its position.

They lost the argument a long time ago, but like pathetic zombies they shambled on always shuffling away whenever confronted with criticisms or ending up ineffectually sniping from the side-lines never willing to enter into anything like a real debate because they know they would be made fools of.

It’s rather sad but just highlights how ‘off the tracks’ the right has become.

 

They seem splintered at the moment but as we get closer to an election and he gets closer to a public meltdown the party will probably become one again
Probably
Hopefully

 

Pat

Well as I’ve said I think this is the rights own fault for not having any good ideas. They have had some very wealthy sponsors that have helped them with a lot of paid for propaganda that has bamboozled many but I think that isn’t even working well these days.

 

CrimethInc. : Life in “Mueller Time” : The Politics of Waiting and the Spectacle of Investigation

"For almost two years now, faithful Democrats have waited for special counsel Robert Mueller to file his report about collusion between Donald Trump’s presidential campaign and Russian attempts to interfere in the US election, not to mention Trump’s involvement in obstruction of justice. Whenever Trump’s activity provokes them or a subterranean rumbling within the Justice Department emboldens them, the faithful take to the streets and social media with hand-held cardboard signs and internet memes to proclaim that Mueller Time is close at hand. Yet even if the Mueller investigation concludes with Trump’s impeachment, the spectacle of the investigation has served to immobilize millions who have a stake in systemic social change, ensuring that what comes next in the United States will be politics as usual—not liberation."

Amazing article. I recommend checking it out.

 

Hmmm. So are you saying that in the absence of further evidence of wrongdoing byTrump we should rise up and see that what comes next is unusual--some kind of revolution? Not likely to happen.

 

Twice in America's history a President has been impeached.

Andrew Johnson a Democrat ran afoul of a Republican dominated Congress and was impeached , a subsequent trial in the Senate ended in his acquittal by one vote.

Bill Clinton became a target of angry Republicans even before he took office then later with the launch of special prosecutor Kenneth Starr's investigation originally charged with investigating the Whitewater land deal and ending up with the President's sex life he finally cornered the President in a lie over sexual activity with an intern Monica Lewinsky, a perjury charge. He was impeached and tried in the Senate but found not guilty by a vote of 55-45 with five Republicans Susan Collins, John Chafee, James Jeffords, Olympia Snowe and Arlen Specter voting Not Guilty.

The Constitution raises a very high bar and sets rigid standards and procedures for trial and conviction.

 

They are on track to lose I think. Open borders, celebration of abortion and talk of reparations sounds like a losing formula to me.

 

The latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll shows that only 18% of respondents approve of a socialist candidate, with half of respondents viewing the term negatively. So no need for the Dems to go that route. Unless they like losing.

Trump has 88 percent approval from Republicans, fewer than 1 in 5 would view a 'socialist' candidate favorably: poll

 

Dems are in a good spot with Bernie as the front runner. Many of them are pissing and moaning about it, though. I just can't understand why they aren't thrilled.

 

That poll is counter to many that say socialism is supported.

It's very easy to twist poll numbers in either direction depending on how the question is asked and the type of person asked. For example did this poll happen at a gun show or in a red state? Did the poll happen on a college campus in New York? You will get different answers from the Americans in either place.

A pole going either way likely has political answers they want from the data.

 

OK. Nominate the most socialist candidate out there and let's see what happens.

 

The Democrats are and I think that is what scares you. Deep down you think they might win, it's not `1960 anymore. Sanders has raised money faster then 2016 and is getting it from thousands of email addresses that he did not in 2016. This shows he has increased his voters and he's probably the most "socialist" one.

An example from fox of all places that says Socialism is supported

Americans warming to socialism over capitalism, polls show

 

Sander's policies are popular, there's a reason even the more moderate Democrats running have embraced them.

And unfocused is right in that how the term socialism is explained makes a difference in poll numbers. The term socialism itself doesnt poll well, but nuance it with democratic socialism and it does better. And poll on individual programs like Medicare for All and they do quite well. Medicare for all polls at around 70%

Socialism is used as a divisive term and that isnt an accident, it is part of the red scare part 2 - pushed on the american people to shy away from programs that are proven to work, and work quite well, in other countries, because it would mean a loss of money and power for so many

Bernie's label as a socialist (which he doesnt claim - he's always been clear on the difference between socialism and democratic socialism) isnt what is important, what is important are his actual policies. And his policies are popular.

 

lol

 

I concur . . .