are most christians naive or is god completely unfair?

Hell is supposed to be taken VERY literally. I was raised hell-fire-and brimstone Southern Baptists, and it is QUITE literal. And all other none Southern Missionary
Foot washing Baptists, gays (or as i heard in the pulpit several times, fags), ACLU,
liberals, men who wear shorts (ie "fags" again), all other Baptists, Catholics, the plethra of other Protetests, espcially Mormons, and uncountable others are going there.

Thats just what i was told, i dont believe that of course. I think only self loathing
Christians go there. The ones who claim Christianity, but live horribly always thinking they will go to hell for what they do. And they will, even if its only a place they created for themselves.

 

Wow Myrtje! You're the first person besides me that I've evre heard use that interpretation.

"cast into the darkeness where there'll be much wailing and gnashing of teeth"

Been there.
It's the fate of a person who turns their back on Truth (any truth, all truth) and chooses to live a life of self deception.

Read this way the gospels and psychology say the same thing;
A person who doesn't face reality can't live in reality so in reality, isn't even alive ("let the dead bury their dead"), and will be in a constant state of conflict and torment.

I think it's odd that most christians object to someone reading the bible allogorically when Jesus himself spoke in parables (...and without parables spoke he nothing to them").

 

Then since I dont know your god, shouldnt I be gnashing my teeth?

Im not in the dark at all, i have a quite happy life full of light, and love
and happiness.

I guess your interpretation is off a bit, seeing how many people
of other faiths arent miserably in the dark, wailing about it.

 

LOL. you missed the point. I'm not talking about christianity per say(I'm not even a "christian" for that matter).
When I say "Truth" I just mean reality--any truth, all truth, seeing what's in front of you and what's inside of you honestly and for what it is at any given moment.

As opposed to someone living in a fake reality they've constructed for themselves out of fear--bigotry, pride, greed, hate--whatever people use to blind themselves.

If you have any respect for truth then you do know my "God", you might even be following him closer than I am.

 

Oh sorry lol. well thats your side, i think Mrytje is talking in a
strictly Christian sense, but i could have missed it too.

Well yes, i would say you and i are close in that.

I think more in honor and passion, those without honor and passion
live lives of insecurity and have no self worth, and that causes them
to pull their life apart at the seams and bring it all down on them.

So yeah, think we are thinking the same.

 

Sounds like it.

Actually if Mrytje's reading the gospels allogorically (which isn't a denial of their literal truth it just doesn't make it a requirement) than she's saying the same thing;

Ignorance (denial, dellusion, dishonesty) is death.
Honesty is life.

 

You can't have your cake and eat it too. It's a package deal. Reject God and live without him (hell), or Accept God and live with Him (heaven).

 

I know a lot of people who accept god and are big sinners

 

ONE CHRISTIAN may believe differently, I actually do believe it's fire and flames and all that. The bible says it's a place of fire and hatred, but, that is just an offset of the removal of God.

I love how you try to slide out of giving us an EXPLANATION on HOW the eastern gate remained standing if not by God?

 

where is this place of fire? is heaven a physical place too?

 

I don't think you get it. You aren't arguing with people here that believe in God. We don't believe in god, and we are using examples of why. It doesn't make sense to us that some higher being that created us, created hell, and created the rules that would sent us to hell, would do it knowing he was going to send a good number of his creations there once they died. We can't seem to understand why he would create living beings to punish them, and KNEW what was going to happen before he even did it all. Telling us "well that's how god made it, choose christ" isn't explaining ANYTHING to us.

We wonder why someone would even want to worship a deity that would be so terrible to his own creations. According to your definition of god it isn't like he didn't know the future when he started this creation thing, so we don't get why he would create all of us knowing how many would suffer for all eternity in hell. He made the rules, he made the game, and he is an all-powerful being, so why didn't he make it in a way that doesn't cause the majority of his creations (he supposedly loves) to suffer for eternity? (I know you all will want to say free will - but free will can exist without hell, I'm sure that is no problem for an all-powerful being)

It isn't like we are "choosing" to go to hell, or choosing to be away from god. How can we make a choice about something we don't think exists? It is like me asking you to choose to meet Santa at the north pole or the south pole. Which one is it? Come on, where do you want to meet Santa...make a choice now...come on, I'm waiting...

 

Heron, it saddens me to hear that Christianity has become so perverted and corrupt in parts of the world, where people ignore The Bible and use religion to do Satan's work.

And I'm sorry for you that you had to grow up in that environment!

There are certain churches where I live that are without The Holy Spirit and similar things go on there (exclusion, intolerance, resentment). But on the whole, The Spirit is with our Christian community. Thank God!

 

I think most Christians just never bother to pick up the bible and read it themselves.

 

I don't think it's "most". But there are many who don't. But those people aren't relaly Christians because they don't have a relationship with God.

 

God is not terrible to His creations. He is kind, it is the people who could care less about God. Jesus even said to many in the bible "You are of your father, Satan". God is Father to all people by birthright, but if they want to go and follow satan, it is their choice to be "emancipated" from God. If they do choose to follow Satan though, they will follow him into hell.

Much of mankind might indeed be suffering in hell. Their choice. It really isn't hard or trifling to accept Jesus, we christians don't have to jump through flaming hoops . So few people do accept Him, though!

That's just the thing. He did make it in a way that won't cause the majority of his creations to suffer in Hell. Jesus's laws aren't cumbersome and difficult to follow. Accepting Jesus isn't hard.

I used to be a pagan and had the same problem. I was H-core back then, you know, the kind who goes out into the streets looking for street preachers to argue with. Believeing in God may be a difficult thing for many at first, but not impossible. When you have the Lord on your side nothing is impossible

Santa is however a known story we tell to children. We looked at the north pole and there's nothing there . Go look at the Eastern Gate or one of those type things, they're still there.

 

Erise - you inspire me

 

Well I would say you and I know very different chrisitans. I grew up with the right-wing conservtive christian elitie in my high school and none of them knew a thing...and I know that means they're not "real" christians if they don't have a relationship, buy the still call themselves that...

 

My faith is built on facts of prophecies that verify the God I worship, your Mother has no voice. She can't speak, she can't tell you the future. Your mother is a false God. If Jesus Christ was only a tribal deity, how is it that He knows the future. Because only God knows the future, and the God of the Bible is the only God that speaks of the future with 100% accuracy. So what does your mother have to say about the future?

 

In Luke 21:32 Jesus states that this generation will not pass away until all prophecies are fulfilled. A verse that is often over looked is verse 29 This is where Jesus states to consider the fig tree and all other trees. The Fig tree is a symbol for Israel. A number of Bible believers includeing myself believe that Jesus made that statement to let future Christians know that the coming of Christ would be when Israel would become a nation once again. The Old testament speakes about this event in at least four chapters. Ezekiel chapters 36,37,38,and 39. This makes for some eye opening reading. Israel became a nation in 1948, and what a number of Christians believe is that the generation that was born in the year 1948 will not pass away untill Christ returns. Now there is another time reference in the Old Testament that talks about a human Resserection occuring in the third day. If Christ died around the year 33 A.D. and according to the Bible that one day with the Lord is a thousand years, then the third day would be around 2034. In the year 2034 the people who were born in the year 1948 will be 86 years old. Now the Bible tells us no one will no the day or the hour when Christ returns. Yet, I believe God is giving a lot of information so that Christians will not be ignorant at the time of His return. What I find remarakable is the fact that you have two prophecies found in the Old and New Testaments, and both prophecies are seperated by hundreds of years. yet the converge at the same time period.
I hope this helps to answer one of your questions.

 

......voodoo is a bastardization of catholicism.......

now.... if a religion can go that far what does that say about incumbancy and religion?

i.e. most people who say they are christians, have no idea what the fuck they are talking about......

it's what happens when religion becomes about ritual and tradition, there is actually a bit in the bible about avoiding tradition.... obvious reasons....

just as bad as trendy athiests "I don't believe in religion because I wear black and it's cool and it really wigs out my parents...."

hell.....