Anyone else really actively oppose circumcision?

Just wanted to say that this point is also surely moot because the foreskin does not fully develop until one is in their teens.


Additionally... perhaps a lot of this conflict is social/cultural. Consider the fact that I am from the UK where circumcision is far less common than in the States.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_circumcision

 

i'm just a mutilated freak who spent too much time looking at my dad's junk.

and i can't wait to barbarically mutilate my future son. i just wanna cut that naturally occurring part of his body off so bad that i'll probably do the cutting myself!

 

No shit. You guys are missing my point. Or choosing to ignore it. I'm not trying to tell you what is right or wrong, justified or not justified, I'm simply trying to point out what is.

This is an extremely complex issue with deep roots in law, religion, society. It goes above and beyond your opinions of "mutilating" infants. That is reducing the issue far beyond what it represents. If you want to convince people to change the laws regarding circumcision, you have to realize that circumcision is a symptom of something much larger--culture, which has deep roots in religion. If you change the culture, the symptoms will fall to the side.

 

I suppose. But the problem with circumcision IS simple. Just a shame about the context lol

I'm not sure why it's so unpopular here in the UK versus the States. I would say it's the increasing level of atheism here, but hey like, even in far more religious (Christian) countries like Italy... circumcision is still under 20%.

Strangely, Jews make up a very low percentage (way under 4%) in both the US and Italy, for example.

So... religion surely is a moot point, right?

So... why do people do it? Tradition? Is there a greater Jewish "sentiment" in the States, or general support of Judaism-based practices?

... not sure

 

Tradition, and the hard and stupid (and unfounded) work of one Dr. Kellogg.

 

I believe it began with Abrahamic religion and is now deeply rooted in what we perceive as "normal."

Many, many people are concerned with appearing normal, and you would be hard pressed to convince them to make their sons appear "abnormal." That is a fate worse than having a part of their penis cut off, after all .

 

To be fair, in most of the word circumcision is considered abnormal.

edit: But I do think that your point is relevant to the US.

 

Yeah it's crazy. It does go some way to explaining the difference in attitude - I'm in Europe and most people in this thread are in the States.

I know many things happen all over the world for reasons of culture, war, poverty and many other reasons. I can't help what happens far away, hell there isn't much I can do to help here either but as it's a pretty low percentage and is an unpopular choice it doesn't matter as much anyway.

I'm sure all of the anti-misandrist sources that initially sparked my interest and analysis of this topic are based in the US as well. Up until now I'd always viewed it as... almost like another possible normal way of being. Like, people say cut/uncut as if they are equal choices and both are fine and natural, so that's what you come to learn.

Now, after learning more and thinking more about the topic, I realize that only uncut is natural and cut is mostly a culturally-imposed idea of how the penis "should look".

I truly hope it changes in the future. There are some areas where I think Europe is ahead and some where I think the US is ahead. And this falls into the former category.

However, I think the States has gotten it right on their increasing acceptance of marijuana

 

hehe, some good pics





http://i.imgur.com/2sxcJKA.png

http://i.imgur.com/KwdiUeo.jpg

 

Stop being a douche and continually bringing it up. I'm not completely for it. Other women have stated it doesn't really matter to them. We can all do research and make a fucking opinion. Stop bringing gender into it

Still being a douche. this was already stated. I'll give you the gender on this one because I don't have a dick to clean. My bad. Everyone I know brings that up as an issue.

Your link was a moot point considering what you quoted.

 

That's actually very true!

You know, over here, whenever I saw images or whatever of penises (hey we all do sometimes!) and the head was exposed, I always assumed that a strangely high number of people just liked to roll their foreskin back. I had no idea why.

Literally only recently has my mind put it together and realised they don't HAVE a foreskin! It's honestly totally foreign to me. I am mildly bi but both guys I have done something with were uncut.

It really does depend where you live in the world, I can promise you all that. Cut looks VERY odd to me, but then I'm sure uncut looks odd to a fair number of people too.


EDIT -- Also, I am now chatting on a few pages and stuff linked to anti-misandry as well as some of my UK friends, and there are actually a lot of women who are anti-circumcision (of both genders), sometimes passionately so.

So... that's totally awesome I'm really glad

I don't know why I doubted it to be honest, I guess on this thread it just seemed to suggest a significantly higher percentage of women being for it (to men at least, I don't know how they feel about different types of female circumcision) than men.

 

The church has always been, and always will be full of double standards in its interpretation of fairy tales written millenia ago & mainly passed down by word of mouth from one language to another, through the wisdom of those who believed that the sun orbited the earth, and that some all seeing entity lived sitting on a cloud somewhere in the sky.

For a start off, how many people here really believe it's still ok to buy & sell people in slavery for money, as clearly approved of here, by 'God' himself - just so long as they're circumcised as well? If they continued to invoke the same Biblical texts that specify the practice of circumcision (which you, yourself have quoted) , then the slave trade would still be booming.

Once again, to refer to the Bible, despite Christ, himself, being Jewish, and having been circumcised accordingly, according to the New Testament the scriptures had been completed, and circumcision was no longer a requirement, yet Catholics still go on about masturbation being sinful, clearly due to a misinterpretation of the story of Onan. Furthermore, it's always been a matter of picking & choosing which parts of the Old Testament to keep in the New version, otherwise the 10 Commandments would no longer be valid.

Dr Kellogg introduced in his asylums because he was a pervert with a complex about masturbation (perhaps he felt guilty about doing it himself) & this opinion became passed on the the general populace in the U.S. as being the correct thing to do, because some famous doctor said so, regardless of the questions regarding his own sanity.

My own partial circumcision was made last year, due to medical reasons from an earlier cycling injury some years ago, so at least I am qualified to compare the one condition from the other, whereas those who were circumcised at birth are clearly not. It does make a great deal of difference, both to sex & masturbation.

Furthermore, the argument of cleanliness also doesn't hold true. The foreskin, especially in that of an infant acts as a valve in avoiding foreign matter from finding its way in, and even then, the foreskin is not simple a piece of skin. It has thousand of nerve endings, specifically for sexual pleasure, as well as exuding a natural anti-biotic wax which not only keeps the glans moist & sensitive, but also protects it from infection.

As for the 'unlikelihood' of it ever being made illegal - a few years ago, in Germany, an outright ban was placed on the circumcision of infants, except where required on medical grounds. With any luck, other E.U. countries will follow suit, hopefully followed by the rest of the world.

 

PineMan - What a fantastic post, thank you

I agree about religion. Most religions and followers pick and choose what they want to adhere to to a greater degree than maybe most people realise. Circumcision is only one of a huge number of rules that have been adhered to or discarded seemingly arbitrarily (more likely, according to the immediate needs of the leaders or followers of that religion).

I think male (and female) circumcision is so sad. We have these wonderful bodies (as exhibited by, for example, what you said in your third and second to last paragraph) and yet we... feel compelled to tamper with them when we often have no idea what we are doing

Evolution (or creation, or whatever you believe) has provided for us. Why must we destroy it?

As for your final paragraph, thank God. Couldn't come soon enough

 

my oh my, what an excellent post! it agrees with my opinion exactly.

 

Where I grew up (New England) the only boys not circumcised were those born abroad in countries without a history of male circumcision, and those from very poor families. It was abnormal not to be...

 

I do find it deeply confusing that so many people seem to be FOR cutting bits off of innocent children. Even after PineMan has stated (and AFAIK entirely rightfully so) that the foreskin plays a huge role in male sexual stimulation, sexual health and is an important part of the penis.

What kind of person would remove it even after reading that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DD2yW7AaZFw"]Anatomy of the Penis: Penile and Foreskin Neurology - YouTube


In summary, all circumcision - male or female - and child abuse or mutilation is wrong. That I even need to say that is a sign of how much of a wrong turn we've taken here.

 

If you have read this thread and still find it confusing as to why people are pro-circumcision, then you simply are not thinking very hard.

People in this thread have spoken eloquently on both sides of the argument, listing several valid reasons for and against foreskin removal. Seriously, you are oversimplifying a complex issue that goes far beyond "mutilating" an innocent child.

And seriously? You think Pine Man's post should change our minds? As if the opinion of one person on a huge internet forum should make up think differently? If someone was so easily swayed I would question their mental state.

My question would be....how could someone read so many diverse and well informed opinions, research studies, and thoughts, and STILL oversimplify and shame people for their beliefs on a multi-faceted and culturally deep rooted tradition?

 

Did you take the time to watch that video?

 

No, I can't watch videos from the computer I am on.

But I did Google him and read his website about circumcisions. Not that the question is particularly relevant. His opinion is one of many, many diverse beliefs of so called "experts." He didn't say anything new. Isn't it fascinating how so many people can look at a pool of research and pick and chose things that support their beliefs?

Anyhow, I'm not necessarily "pro" circumcision. I certainly wouldn't go so far as to outlaw it. Worldwide, the definitions of what constitute "child abuse" are so vastly different. If a child grows up experiencing a cultural norm (spanking, circumcision), they probably won't suffer severe psychological damage. Unless they suffer abuse that is outside of the norm. What is accepted in one country is sneered upon in another. Your definition of abuse is shaped by your environment.

 

So, female circumcision is fine too when the culture or religion calls for it?

There was a lot of information in that vid... you'd probably have to read quite a lot before you got it all.