Hey guys........... And, no, NOT fence builders or carpenters! LOL Fencers as in The Art of the Sword. See.....I am about to do something I've wanted to do for years: take a fencing class. It's being offered at a local private martial arts academy. I've never done it before, and was wondering if per chance anybody here has some experience in Sword play, fencing, etc. and would be able to tell me what I might expect? What sort of drills or exercises would we begin with? How long till we get to actually fence with each other? What sort of conditioning or exercise is helpful for a fencer? That sort of thing. I believe, though am not sure, that we are going to begin with the epee, and then do foil and then sabre. Is this a natural progression? Which is the hardest? Easiest? Most fun? Anyway, I'm looking forward to it. My first class is next Thursday evening. Classes will then be on Tu and Thur from 7-9 I think. Thannks in advance for your time. Chris.
I have a similar window sticker. But it's a San Jose Shark pissing on your Penguin. LOL Now....get the fuck off my thread if you've nothing to contribute regarding my question.
I used to fence. The epee is the small blade and the foil is a larger blade. You'll have fun there's a lot involved and it's not all about waving the weapon around either there is gymnastics involved and all sorts of things. you'll want to build your leg muscles up as it all looks easy and fast, but you use your legs a lot with little movements and jump forward or back etc.
I used to do historical fencing, a discipline usually called HEMA, I learned longsword, rapier, dussack, staff, a bit of dagger and (my favourite) sword and buckler. I HIGHLY reccomend HEMA as a martial art, particularly if you have an interest in European History and a desire to learn how these weapons were actually used. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU9SKMDFtm4 In terms of sport fencing I don't have a great deal of experience. I recommend squats, squats and more squats though. Gotta get that explosive power in your legs to close distance and retreat. I know a few older gentlemen who really struggled with it because it placed a great deal of strain on their knees, so watch out for that, I guess.
Thanks, Auto...there's some good advice here so I'll try to remember it. I think my knees are good. I'm a runner and I do some boxing and play tennis occasionally, and I'm not 40 yet. So I don't know that I qualify for the "older gentlemen" category yet. LOL I am familiar with HEMA. We have a chapter here in Austin. I was actually thinking of checking them out, but they're meets are way on the other side of town from me. I HAVE heard from many fencers, former fencers, and HEMA guys--or guys who do other sword arts--that modern fencing has gotten very far away from anything close to real swordfighting. Do you agree with this. They say that it's all about flicking your wrist and quickness, and that the right of way rules and the electronic timer have taken a lot away from authenticity. Insofar as a real sword fight. They say that you do many things in fencing that you'd never ever want to do in a real sword fight. That....even a superior swordsman, if trnasplanted here from, say, the 17th century Spain, could esaily lose a modern fencing match to a 16 year old girl who has been fencing for a couple years but of course never anywhere NEAR a battlefield or life and death sword fight. Or a real duel. What's your take on that? Thanks again for your time and your great post!! Chris
No problem mate Well, in a nutshell, yeah. Modern sport fencing is a million miles away from traditional swordsmanship. It is to HEMA what Kendo is to Kenjutsu- a rigidly formalised and controlled sport which massively simplifies each engagement, stripping it of everything apart from more or less once action- the thrust. So if you watch the video I posted, you'll notice first and foremost that they're using sword and buckler, protecting themselves with a buckler in the off hand and stabbing, parrying, slashing etc, using both sides and point of the blade. But they're also moving, circling around each other looking to exploit weaknesses in each other's guard. In sport fencing on the other hand, you move in two directions- backwards and forwards. I don't need to point out that this is hardly realistic. In addition, there are many manouvres which are acceptable in HEMA which would see you instantly disqualified from a sport fencing competition. For example, grabbing your opponent's blade with your off hand and controlling it/wrenching it out of their grasp, grabbing their wrist, elbow or arm and attempting to grapple/throw them to the floor, grabbing your own weapon by the blade and using it as a spear, hook or mace (half-swording) In fact there are many situations where it makes perfect sense to throw your own weapon away and just try and throw your opponent to the ground. These are acceptable in HEMA because HEMA is based on traditional martial practice, but you'd never see the like at the olympics It's perhaps unfair to make the comparison between sport fencing and the video I posted earlier, but here is an example of HEMA practitioners light sparring with thrusting weapons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-NqH1-L5x4 One of the principle differences you'll notice is that almost every engagement starts with blades connected, in sport fencing it's much more common to see fencers lunging in from out of distance. Here the object is to keep oneself safe through binding and winding against your opponent's blade- you should be able to feel where your opponents blade is and react to minute movements that he makes. It's a much more careful way to go at each other (which makes sense, given that you're emulating people fighting with actual sharp weapons). Another is one that's common to almost all points-based martial arts sports- in HEMA you keep yourself covered at all times, you never go in unprotected. In order to enforce this, in tournaments that I participated in a rule was enforced that double hits would not count (I.e> if I hit you and you hit me quick enough- before the judge gives a ruling, no points for either of us) this meant that it wasn't enough to just get the hit, you had to get it, get out, and stay covered at all times. I notice comparatively that in sport fencing there's a lot of lunging in and relying on your own speed and athleticism, rather than blade placement, to keep you safe.After all, the judge/electronic system will stop the bout as soon as the hit registers- you don't need an exit strategy. It's very impressive, but I'd wager that's not how you'd fight in a situation with real swords. The other big thing is hit placement- In modern fencing you want the torso or head- in HEMA hits to the hands and forearms are most commonplace, and legs and feet are fair game too. HEMA practictioners have notoriously bruise-striped forearms. Even when hits to the hand don't count (wearing big gauntlets for protection or using basket-hilted weapons, depending on rules of the bout, these sometimes aren't counted) a slap with the flat of the blade to the opponents hand in order to get their blade out of the way or just get their attention is a common opening move. I don't say any of this to disparage modern fencers- I have a great deal of respect for them. My passion for HEMA arose from an interest in the historical aspects. HEMA pracitioners take legit medieval and Renaissance fighting manuals and recreate the techniques found in them, it's an awesome process and a great piece of living history. As to a modern vs. traditional fencing master, I think anyone who comes to a sport they've never trained in, with equipment they've never used and rules they've never fought under would be at a severe disadvantage. I'd like to think that a traditional master of the rapier could hold his own against an amateur modern fencer after a bit of practice, if only by bringing a few techniques that his opponent would be totally unprepared for to the table. Particularly grabbing their sword by the blade and punching them in the face
But just because you find yourself skilled in the arts of the rapier, it's a different animal when you pick up that broadsword. Then you learn the difference pretty quick I feel, between fencing and real sword fighting because even though I enjoyed fencing etc. it is very... Hollywood. Like the pirates of the carribean movie sword fights clang clang clang well that's not how soldiers in the Middle Ages fought with their swords or weapons at all. That's what I mean about the gymnastics of sorts, fencing is a sexy sport, very posture, very fast, swift... sexy.. now hold a heavy 15kg+ shield in your left hand and try and wave that broadsword around. is the difference between fighting for your life and competing in a sport. After fencing I chose archery as my main "sport". I always had a thing for medieval stuff so swords and archery were right up my alleyway when I was younger.
LOL @ "grabbing their sword and punching them in the face." How cool is that? I imagine that back in the day in a real swordfight such a move would be the ultimate bitch slap! Sound fun. So does HEMA. I'm sure I'd have more fun doing that than this beginning fencing class. But maybe I'll go check out our Austin chapter after I finish this class. And that video of the rapier duel was brilliant. I watched it three times. Thanks again. You know your shite when it comes to historical edge weapon combat, I gotta hand it to you. You're a fine writer as well. I'm guessing you've done some writing on this topic in the past. Hope you don't mind if I now consider you my go to bloke for fencing and sword play info? Cheers.
No but i've seen The Adventures of Robin Hood (1938) about dozen times.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UJ6g2Zhwgg
Shield fighting is awesome too I self taught my shield defense as a house defense basically I have my shield which encompasses everything and my big stainless boss, that thing nasty to bash with but good luck to anyone trying to force their way inside my house. Besides it sits my Viking style one handed sword. I practiced for months outside on a box bag just trying to build the muscles to hang onto the shield for so long. It's good fun. I'd be more into fencing again if it was more like that, but I think I gotta go in like a medieval festival or something. I'd like to give jousting a go too. This is my shield.
Aye, fencing with metal Feders really feels like a proper engagement. And they can hurt like fuck. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjT4JepA-Vc There's a bit of a myth, perpetuated by Hollywood (and katana fanboys) that medieval European swords are heavy and cumbersome though, swinging a properly balanced longsword, or even a montante, is fluid and the point is very manouverable and quick as anything. Here's the bloke who used to teach me doing just that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kUbmYPQHhc
Thanks for the kind words, man. Always glad to have a natter about swords. I really miss doing HEMA, I had to leave because it wasn't quite enough excersize once I landed an office job, and I was becoming very spherical. I'm strictly Jujitsu now, but I'd go back to HEMA at the drop of a hat, just cos I love the history so much. Anyway yeah, feel free to spot me your historical fencing enquiries, just don't get me onto Katana vs. Longsword and variable steel densities, I'll bore you to death. Aye, the grappling and half-swording aspects really are what make HEMA special, I even know of some who train with daggers in their belts so that they can have a backup weapon when engagement gets too close for comfort. It's a shame Hollywood hasn't really cottoned on to how awesome medieval one-on-one combat could actually look if represented accurately. Here's some peeps running through a few plays with the longsword, basically just drilling, but you can see starting at 1:00 how the longsword is as much a grappling weapon as a striking one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3DhjFUOG6Y Anyhoo, all the best, good luck with your fencing exploits.
