Any Atheist And/or Agnostic Rt's?

^ i must agree with that...for instance, my dogs do not know words(maybe a few through repetition..they know their names...cookie...pee pee...out....etc)....but they read my emotions, body language, touch and tone of voice, basically, just as i read theirs to know what is going on .....they do not do math, either....LOL

 

Through repetition? then they know words like they scratched them in the appropriate corner in the backyard. My words on words; maybe these aren't Words.

 

^What? They know words I use with them, repeatedly, to communicate something......and the cats here know their names, as well....what are you talking about?
Who scratched who in what corner?

 

they know words, but this isn't really language. animals aren't capable of any type of abstraction or complex language structures, not even any language syntax which doesn't require abstraction.

it is simply association. humans are capable of multiple levels of abstraction.

 

I disagree, insofar that many animals use fairly complex body language to communicate (moving tails, stomping hooves, etc). As Moonglow suggests, this communication even transcends species, which is pretty remarkable if you think about it.

Mckenna had a broad definition of language, I believe to include stuff that's not even recognized as actual language by many scholars, such as glossolalia and his anecdotal accounts of 'visible language' from DMT elves. So I think it's fair to say, that like when you say math can describe the universe, you likely include various types with different complexity under this umbrella: arthimetic, algebra, trignometry. Mckenna is doing the same with language and probably using a broader definition than many scholars in the west would, such as those examples I gave and I assume touch, pheremones, etc.

I don't disagree with you in that math can be descriptive of the universe, but the notions that Mckenna raise are interesting to me and suggest that math is secondary, that when it's applied to be descriptive it's essentially a short hand notation for language.

For instance, "Turn on the ac" is a meaningless statement if you don't understand ac is an acronym for air conditioner. Similarly E=mc2 is a meaningless equation if you don't understand the lingustic associations with the variables.


To tie this back around to the main topic, perhaps this primary (divine) quality of language is why the "Word of God" carries such powerful meaning and sentiment to believers.

 

Animals can communicate in ways humans don't. Which means they are very good at something so complex that it requires hundreds of scientists over years and years to find a clue to think we know what is communication. When we do, we found a pattern, usually based off of math, doesn't mean we can understand it.

Think of animals and a complex language structure.. Chameleons can change color and adapt to surroundings. I can't imagine its any different from their forms of language.

Animals might not be able to communicate with us humans, as we are the dominate species. They know how to talk in ways we still haven't discovered, because we can't see it.

 

Animlas are awesome. Anyone living with them surely knows that. They teach me things every day. I am almost positive they are tapped into senses we are not aware of. I am convinced one cat reads my mind.....shows up every single time I think about him, and goes somewhere I just thought about going to in the house, so he beats me to it, so to speak........

 

I'm sure you know this, but I wanna clarify it it for some of the christians who refuse to believe humans are animals too, just like homo habilis; we're the latest species of a LONG lineage of Great Apes. That is, until scientists find evidence that discounts that. There may have been beings of the homo genus that pre-date homo habilis, for all we know.

PS- Thanks for adding me as a friend.

 

Maybe with many athletes that aren't known to be absolutely devout (Tim Tebow for instance) , that praising of God perhaps is similar to these kind of ideas...

It's true that Gabby Douglas put in the training, and had coaches and parents to help her along the way, but presumably so did all of her competition. I think in with respect to competitors, who put in just as much effort, a winning athlete may praise God in 'allowing' for them to perform at their peak level to win.

 

Because the thread has more participants.

 

I'm not an atheist as I definetely have a spiritual side to my personality and believe in a higher being of some kind, but I'm not part of an organized religious cult. I'm always willing to challenge my beliefs or put myself in question, my motto is to never assume anything and never deny anything I can't prove or invalidate without a doubt either. This keeps me critical, open minded and honest, as far as my beliefs are concerned, no dogma or bigotry as I'm always ready to put my vision of the world to the garbage if I ever come across another one that makes more sense to me.

 

Maybe her viewpoint lines up with yours, but definitely not mine. I'm not judging her for it. I just wish she would give herself more credit, because she deserves it.

Her views MAY fit more with yours, but I highly doubt it. A few minutes of research just now confirmed that she is a devout christian.

 

Good for you! At least you're keeping an open-mind and asking questions. As I said an a few posts in this thread...........I think people should research every religion at their disposal, find what's right for you, and follow your heart. You may even become a full-fledged atheist. lol

Most people who believe in a higher power as scaed shitless to challenge their beliefs, and I commend you for having the guts to do that.

 

Indeed it takes courage to challenge your beliefs, it's not comforting to never have any sense of reliability about anything. At any time your vision of the Universe can fall into pieces and you're left with nothing but doubts and questions without answers. Sometimes it feels like walking on the verge of insanity... So yeah, not comforting or reassuring in any way, but it's definetely more stimulating and satisfying in the end.

 

I was a christian for the approximately 25 years, give or take, and becoming an atheist is one of the most amazing things to have ever happened to me. Why is that, you might ask? Because I believe that happiness and smiles are all that matter in life, and that we should all smile as often as possible, and help others to smile whenever you have the opportunity to do so.. Becoming an atheist(rather.......REALIZING I'm an atheist) is one of the most rewarding things that has ever happened to me. I get to live by my own morals. I treat people right and respect them for no other reason than because it's the right thing to do, and I treat people with respect, until they give me a reason not to.

 

Im not looking for common ground, nor would I flatter your denouncement of belief.

Im simply asking you to give a little explanation to your opinion. Because to be quite fair, your being unfair in the ridiculing that which you wont explain. It's rather, rude; and to say the least your attitude is intriguing.

 

This is a letter written by Richard Dawkins to his daughter. I don't know how the rest of you will feel about it, but I thought it was an amazing read.

 

I've never been a christian lol my mom tried real hard but I rejected christianity from the start. (I still remember to this day the petrified look on her face when I told her I never wanted to go back to church again after my very first visit... I was 6.) Even as a small kid I was able to feel this belief system is hypocritical, limitating and maybe even unhealthy, and I was in strong disagreement with most of what I could hear or read about it. At best it made no sense to me, at worst it was absolutely revolting and I grew a strong disgust for the church, its clergy and its believers, as some just do not put in practice what they preach and claim to believe in.

LOL the philosophy you say you adhere to sounds a lot like Dudeism (yes, that's an actual belief system). It's like you say, it's all about being nice and laid back, not actively looking for trouble, living a good, happy life and chill out. That's enough to be a good person and live a positive life, and to me this is what matters.

And that last part of your message:

I'm tempted to say this sounds a lot like... Luciferianism. Their main motto is to be fair, whatever that means in a given situation, and many adepts share your views on that specific matter.

Troubling, isn't it?

 

^The hypocrisy of it all....

That is why when I meet those rare individuals who really walk the walk and practice whatever they are preaching, they have my respect.

TNS, oh , you are most definitely welcome....about time, eh? LOL

 

You're lucky. I wish I'd realized all of that how I felt. Then again, I DO live in the deep south(Georgia), so, as I said in a previous post, I'm actually the only atheist I know, unless the other are just scared of how their friends and family would react by them coming out as atheists.

Oh, religion definitely hypocritical, limiting, and especially unhealthy. We agree on that 420%, though none of those apply to all of the people who follow Abrahamic religions. Probably most, but definitely not all.

lol Then I'm suppose I'm a Dudeist(Lebowski reference?) I'll accept that

hahaha Yes, it's definitely about time.