anti terrorism laws used against american animal rights activist

Discussion in 'U.K.' started by jonny2mad, Sep 3, 2005.

  1. jonny2mad

    jonny2mad Senior Member

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  2. pabsy

    pabsy Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

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    YES...this is madness... but no suprise.... this law will ubdoubtably be used to suit whatever our government decides needs silencing. ..
    YES .. any person involved directly or indirectly with the suffering of animals is a legitamate target for animal rights activists....and
    NO..this is not terrorism
     
  3. dapablo

    dapablo redefining

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    I believe it to be outrageous. Write a letter of complaint to your MP.
     
  4. Soulless||Chaos

    Soulless||Chaos SelfInducedExistence

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    Did you really believe any such laws were genuinely for terrorists? :rolleyes: In the US or UK it's the same, they're only meant to give the government more control. :rolleyes:
     
  5. dapablo

    dapablo redefining

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  6. Bentenamin

    Bentenamin Member

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    So does this mean you'de be fine with an islamic terrorist blowing up your house to put his point across?
     
  7. dapablo

    dapablo redefining

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    No-one is fine with killing, terrorists kill, by definition.
    Defenders of animal rights have not killed and are therefore not terrorists.
     
  8. cymru_jules

    cymru_jules Member

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    Actually I can see where the government are coming from. Dr Best says:

    If this was somebody Islamic speaking about "infidels", or a member of the BNP speaking about foreigners, then it's all very much in the same category. Just because nobody has been killed *yet*, doesn't count for nothing. Up until the 7th of July this year you could have said the same thing about Islamic extremists in this country.

    Ultimatly by saying, "violence is legitimate" and particulary "we want to wipe them off the face of the earth" is pretty strong stuff, and given that idiots have been digging up bodies and other things it's fair to say that animal rights peeps are no longer all talk.

    At any rate the government is hardly being nazi-esque is it... they've only banned him from coming into the country - it's not like they've locked him up for years. Although I actually think that by doing this they have given him more publicity and his message can be spread through the Internet anyway - just like it has here!

    Actually I think the definition of a terrorist is to spread terror??? There are countless examples of "real" terrorism which does not include killing somebody, such as hostage taking and then the THREAT of killing. And clearly in this particulary case Dr Best's tone is fairly threatening.

    I fear that one day an animal rights group will actually go too far, and in doing so the message of peaceful animal rights campaigners will be lost.
     
  9. Bentenamin

    Bentenamin Member

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    well said,

    I just thought I'd point out I'm not saying that it was nesiserilly fair for the animal rights guy to be banned although I could agree his attitude does apear to be very heavy handed,
    but it does seem that you find it more acceptible to ban islam extreemists than animal rights campaginers just because you don't agree with Islams cause.
    My point of fact was the Islams belioeve in thier case as good wether or not you do. I was just wondering if you would have the same attitude had all the animal rights campaigner to Islamic extremist and all the vivesectors (I think that was the word used) to Infadels.

    Scondly legislation is incredibly hard to get right and I have at least some respect for the goverment for the job thier are doing.
     
  10. cymru_jules

    cymru_jules Member

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    Umm, not sure what you're getting at? My post was trying to emphasise the fact that the legislation is not targetted at any groups specifically - regardless of if they are animal rights extremists, racist anarchists, islamic extremists, or pot noodle radicals. Therefore, I found it a little daft that people were labelling it "madess" that the legislation was used against what they labelled "non-terrorists".

    So to answer your question - I'm personally not bothered about what they represent, or indeed if they are considered mainstream terrorists or just thugs - my main concern would be about their intentions to incite and encourage violence, etc.
     
  11. cymru_jules

    cymru_jules Member

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    Sorry, forgot to add..

    Have to agree with you there - you're never going to please everybody particulary with legislation that takes away peoples liberties such as the right to free speech. Of course, like most liberal ideals - it all has to be taken "within reason", and allowing people to encourage violence and harm detracts from most peoples ideas of a society based on freedom and safety IMO.
     
  12. Bentenamin

    Bentenamin Member

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    Thats okay I wasn't having a go at you at all,
    I was just starting to get annoyed at how people seemed to be having a go at the goverment for ostrosizing some one when they agreed with him (the others not govement)
    That linked with the thought of animal protestors shashing bugs and ended up taking it out in that post.
    In summary you were right, I was just trying to enforce what you said.
     
  13. PIXIEFIED

    PIXIEFIED Member

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    hes not the only dr who supports animal rights to be banned from the uk
     
  14. dapablo

    dapablo redefining

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    Poor Government ah diddums, and I have not said I agree with what he advocates at all. You can't ban people, because they say they want to change the way the world works. I would like to remove all Fascists from the face of the planet, but I certainly not kill anyone.
     
  15. Claire

    Claire Senior Member

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    Well-said...yup:)
     
  16. Bentenamin

    Bentenamin Member

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    To start with I niether said he should have been banned or alowed free passage, I'm currently not well enough informed to make a dissistion like that.
    Secondly he's not being banned because he wants to change the world but because of the way he wants to do it, which coincidently involves the spreading of terror.
    There was a third point but that was low before I found out it was wrong and need to properly research my hypothesis
     
  17. Claire

    Claire Senior Member

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    depends-on-your-definition-of-terror-really

    does-terror-against-animals-not-count?

    seems-to-me-that-"terror"-is-defined-by-the-government-to-suit-their-own-agenda-of-suppressing-our-right-to-protest

    :&
     
  18. PIXIEFIED

    PIXIEFIED Member

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    too right
     
  19. dapablo

    dapablo redefining

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    You don't know enough, yet state without evidence that he advocates the use of terror.
    I can state my ignorance of the man, but ""if violence is needed to save an animal from attack, then violence is legitimate as a means of self-defence for animals." does not advocate the use of terror only defence of the weak, should you not do likewise ?
     
  20. cymru_jules

    cymru_jules Member

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    Complete crap. Dr Best has outright stood up and said he supports violence... "Right to protest" does not include right to take part in violent activities and "wipe people off the face of the earth".

    The government *are* suppressing your right to violent protest though. Perhaps this is what you mean - just be honest with yourself!
     

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