Another statue comes down.

It’s not complicated for me, but if a group of concerned citizens want to remove it and display it in a private museum, that’s fine.

Let them spend hours gloating over him and his accomplishments.

Conversely if a group of BLM protesters decide in the dead of night to deface the statue, or worse,,
I wouldn't have a problem with that either.

 

Right-wing extremists at work once again...................

 

Too bad about those places where the people are of such low calibre that they don't stand up for their town and fellow people. Yet we still have places where attackers of people and property wouldn't dare operate. Unless they're tired of living!

 

Would you have a problem if a group of KKK decide in the dead of night to deface the statue of MLK, or worse? I have a problem with mobs and vigilantes in general.

 

You're callin' my ancestors Russians? Siberians perhaps. Certainly not Slavs! Actually, there is a long line of contenders for the title of "discoverers of America"--Polynesians, Chinese, and Phoenicians have laid claim. Such arrogance! We were there first!

 

So you’re comparing the statue of a civil rights hero, with the statue of a slave owner who forced his slaves to work sun-up to sundown six days a week,
eat food sometimes not suitable for a dog, while living in small shack with a dirt floor and little or no furniture.

No comment because I don't want to violate HF rules

 

I'm talking about the phenomenon of mob action and self-help vigilantism--people who take upon themselves the right to decide for others what goes and stays, by virtue of their self-proclaimed intellectual or moral superiority--and to do it by force. It invites anarchy and violence. You're willing to overlook King's womanizing because of his great achievements in Civil Rights and non-violent civil disobedience. Me, too. Jefferson, like most of us, was a creature of his times, when slavery was taken as the natural order of things. Wilburforce didn't take up the cause of anti-slavery until 1787, and it was his leadership that spearheaded the British movement against slavery. The abolitionist movement in the United States didn't get underway in the United States until the 1830's. It's easy in retrospect to see the error of their ways. Saint Paul spoke favorably about slavery. Will we purge the New Testament of his writings, too? (there goes 28% of it!) The Declaration of Independence is rightly respected as foundational in U.S. history, and Jefferson wrote it, even though most of the ideas came from John Locke. I also value Jefferson's contributions to the separation of church and state, a phrase which he coined.

And I agree with some of his later positions on slavery, albeit he didn't practice them. (He seems to have been a world class hypocrite!) In the original draft of he Declaration of Independence, Jefferson called the slave trade “a cruel war against human nature itself” that violated its “most sacred rights of life & liberty.” That passage was edited out to keep the southern colonies from bolting. In the early 1780's, he supported a plan to end slavery in Virginia, and in 1784 he drafted a law to prohibit slavery in all of the western territories. As President, he signed into law an act “to prohibit the importation of slaves into any port or place within the jurisdiction of the United States.” He called slavery a “moral depravity” and a “hideous blot,” but continued to hold slaves his entire adult life, which from a moral standpoint may be particularly reprehensible. He seems to have rationalized it in his own mind by the idea they wouldn't fare well on their own in the social climate of the antebellum south.

Of course the particular dead president who is a source of resentment by my people is Andrew Jackson, who was responsible for taking us from our original homeland east of the Mississippi and forcing us to march to Oklahoma, at the cost of much death and suffering, leaving us at the mercy of local hostiles. It was also Jackson who, after the Supreme Court made a decision favorable to the Cherokee tribe, said "John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it!" Jackson is Trump's favorite, and he arrange a photo op with Native Americans in front of a large portrait of Jackson. I think that was an obvious slap in the face, but I'm not making a deal about the portrait, nor am I about to burn my Jackson $20 bills.

Most importantly, though, I'm concerned that, human behavior being what it is, actions against figures like Jefferson--and Columbus--will alienate the majority in this country, which is still white. Right now, BLM has, according to the polls, won an incredible level of support among white Americans. Overplaying their hand could easily turn that around and play into the hands of racists who have been arguing for some time that the movement is dangerous. It would be unfortunate if we snatch defeat from the jaws of victory over some dead presidents.
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Of course the particular dead president who is a source of resentment by my people is Andrew Jackson, who was responsible for taking us from our original homeland east of the Mississippi and forcing us to march to Oklahoma, at the cost of much death and suffering, leaving us at the mercy of local hostiles. It was also Jackson who, after the Supreme Court made a decision favorable to the Cherokee tribe, said "John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it!" Jackson is Trump's favorite, and he arrange a photo op with Native Americans in front of a large portrait of Jackson. I think that was an obvious slap in the face, but I'm not making a deal about the portrait, nor am I about to burn my Jackson $20 bills.

Most importantly, though, I'm concerned that human behavior being what it is, actions against figures like Jefferson--and Columbus--will alienate the majority in this country, which is still white. Right now, BLM has, according to the polls, won an incredible level of support among white Americans. Overplaying their hand could easily turn that around and play into the hands of racists who have been arguing for some time that the movement is dangerous. It would be unfortunate if we snatch defeat from the jaws of victory over some dead presidents.

 

So next time some conquistadors come around the memory of the first time will be gone and people won't know whats happening.

What if Jewish people and others victims of the Nazis had the same attitude as these protesters and destroyed everything we would have no List of Holocaust memorials and museums - Wikipedia


Police in Albuquerque on Tuesday announced they had arrested a former city council candidate who they say shot and wounded a man at a protest that grew contentious as demonstrators clashed with a militia group. The Monday night episode — which erupted after a crowd tried to tear down a monument to Spanish conquistador Juan de Oñate.

That dude is so hurting right now. Was all angry caught up in the bullshit of left vs right politics and fires a shot now sitting in jail most likely wishing more then anything he could just go back in time just a few days and not have done that.

According to the complaint, Williams can be seen on bystander video retrieving a board and swinging it toward Baca’s upper body and head. Then, the complaint says, Baca fired several shots. The crowd scattered.https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/06/16/albuquerque-militia-shooting-protest/

This whole thing has gone sideways. Man gets choked out by police now people are fighting over statues in front of a museum ???

I still say if these protesters had any brains what so ever they would go be disruptive at Americas most hated institutions.




Nothing causes more bad encounters with police for black people and everyone else then the scumbags at DMV and their revenue generation scams stickers and fees, expire and renew... Late fees...

Traffic tickets in California are so expensive because various surcharges are often added to the tickets. Some of the surcharges are emergency medical air transport fees, fingerprint fund, local justice facilities fund and state courthouse construction.

The average 40-year-old California driver will pay 42% more per year for full coverage insurance after one speeding ticket.

Based on our research, the true cost of a speeding ticket in California could be more than 33 times the cost of the actual ticket — considering drivers could pay an additional $1,184 for a $35 ticket. That total cost includes the average $694 per year in additional insurance premiums, based on our analysis, and up to $490 in fees to the state of California.

Can't afford to pay that pile of tickets they suspend your licence so you can't get to work dig you a great big hole.





The Driving Life And Death Of Philando Castile

An NPR analysis of those records shows that the 32-year-old cafeteria worker who was shot and killed by a police officer during a traffic stop in a St. Paul, Minn., suburb, was stopped by police 46 times and racked up more than $6,000 in fines. Another curious statistic: Of all of the stops, only six of them were things a police officer would notice from outside a car — things like speeding or having a broken muffler.

The records show that Castile spent most of his driving life fighting tickets. Three months after that first stop, for example, his license was suspended and he went into his first spiral: Police stopped him on Jan. 8, 2003. They stopped him on Feb. 3 and on Feb. 12 and Feb. 26 and on March 4.

The Driving Life And Death Of Philando Castile

 

It wouldn't even necessarily be racists, but simply common sense folks of all backgrounds who appreciate fair law and order.

 

You're right, but missing the point. People just want to get out and get rowdy. They've been cooped up too long. They aren't giving the least thought into what they're tearing up, nor ramifications, they're just reveling in their fatherless lack of restraint.

I've had nigh on a hundred speeding tickets. And not one accident claim on my insurance. But instead of teaching people how to drive, someone thought it would be a better idea to tell them how fast to go according to a speedometer. Brilliant!

 

If they’re gonna erase anything with a racist history. Then tear down the democrat party

 

As statues of former presidents fall in America, stairs of Mao remain standing in China.

 

Great, now do the Prophet Mohammad

 

Even having one of the Prophet Mohammad would be problematic, because of concerns about idolatry and some hadith proscribing depiction of the Prophet. There actually have been a fewsuch statues, by non-Muslims,notably in courthouses as part of groupings intended to honor great prophets. Maybe you could score points with Muslims by smashing one, if you did it as part of jihad. There is one of these at the U.S. Supreme Court despite efforts of the Council on American-Islamic Relations to have it removed. A similar statue was removed from the New York courthouse after objections by ambassadors from various Muslim countries.

 

I'm offended by moulded concrete.

 

My point is that if we're gonna vilify all historical figures who owned slaves. Then Mohammad also belongs in the hall of shame.

 

Only statues that identify as white people need to come down everything else isn't as important because they don't identify as white.

 

What about that black guy though that knocked down a statue and it fell on his head.

Fucken get that up in ya.

 

You would think the "racist" Democrats would be the one talking about their culture and history. But no it's the "not racist" GOP which in 2020 is the party of choice for the KKK that wants to preserve a Democratic past. No amount of mental gymnastics can get past this. The people who spend all their time saying they are not racist are upset that racist statues are removed.

Obama was president for about twice as long as the Confederacy even existed and for the most part the world did not recognize its existence during the war. So what is the real history you like? It's the social order. Because as far as real history is concerned it does not matter besides being a tool for modern racists.

The south's view is a romantic fantasy. The Lost Cause as it's known of small town farmers who don't need or care for the government doing what they had to. They knew they would die but it was better to die a brave man than live as a coward. They made their own culture free of a PC government. At the time it was PC to say slave lives mattered. Well they had no time for that shit in the south because they had hard work to be done and families to feed. Why did you know a lot of slave owners were good Christian men who were nice to slaves? Why would they beat slaves whom they depending on for good work? A book in North Carolina will tell you they loved their slaves and racism was a political tool of the north to justify the war.

So just like now the big mean left wing people invent racism. Meanwhile the south is just trying to live and love. It's such nonsense. The north was not kind to black people they don't have a moral high ground they were just slightly less racist than the south then. Going to school outside the south vs visiting it for Thanksgiving gave me some perspective. The time period is a fantasy for them and they don't really accept actual history. The amount of "jokes" I heard even in a week about a second war were pretty sad and I looked at some high school textbooks. They don't really discuss facts. It's heavy on emotion. Things like anecdotes of poor farmers and not so much the real reasons for the war. It was very odd to see from the same people who say fuck your feelings I have facts.

The right wing LOVES shit like this. Because they get to think well I have a Ar-15 and I live on a farm. Maybe I could do that too. I know I will one day if and when things get too crazy. So the statue is a a symbol that poor white people can stand up. If the blacks get too uppity making their own problems they can see this statue and know my people are proud.

This is probably the reason that most of the statues went up in the early 20th century. A time when southern vets were dying and even though there was Jim Crow laws there was also a society saying we don't like slaves we are equal. Young white women were listening to jazz a style of music black people invented. Even worse they were being seen WITH black men in jazz clubs. It was very upsetting social change so white people wanted to make things great with a past.One of the most important things to a white racist is who the white women is hanging out with. They need to be available for white sperm or the race will die. Hitler and the KKK both agree on this point.

The children of the vets were the ones who wanted states not so much the people who were there. People alive now fall for the same thing. They feel their white identity is under attack because the modern jazz club is the BLM movement.

Lost Cause of the Confederacy - Wikipedia