Angry Omnis....

Discussion in 'Vegetarian' started by shutterfly, May 10, 2004.

  1. TreePhiend

    TreePhiend Member

    Wow, the onmi trolls have gotten out of control. I just want to comment on the major issues of the thread.

    DrAtomic, you obviously rule, that dude was insanely ignorant. I think the veggie argument could have been strngthened in this case by saying that the animals raised for slaughter are mostly fed vegan food (corn, soy, grain ect.) So to sustain the life of the meat producing animal, it must kill the unfortuinate anmials that get run over by the combine. A veg*an kills about as many animals as the grain fed cow that omni's munch on habitually.

    Perhaps tool making for the purpose of hunting helped increase human intelegence, but that is not a reason to eat meat in modern society. Being smart in and of itself is an evolutionary advantage now a days.

    I think the fact that this thread was started about omni's bashings veg*ans for no reason, then the omnis got all defensive and helped prove the original point.

    Good posts everyone! Veg*ans and omnis included (but please do leave omni's)

    oh and about eating the salad with meat juice in it or whatever - whoever posted that said that it was just a funny thing to do because she was not making the choice, and should therefore have no ethical qualms about it. but did it ever occur to you that veg*ans find meat totally disgusting - choice or no choice? Its like spitting in someone's food and thinking its funny because they didn't choose to eat it. That is not funny, it is just gross and mean.
  2. BoozeJockey

    BoozeJockey Member

    Good points. Like i said, tools helped humans in their past. A friend of mine said that may be true, but suggested that now we don't need to hunt and why not evolve and not eat meat, and i find that interesting and worth thinking about. And i apologize about the laughing at the meat in the salad thing, i didn't know meat downright disgusted vegans and i thought it was more of a choice thing(many vegetarians eat "meat subsitute"). I don't think she was really disgusted though, just more mad in of a "oh my god i'm a vegetarian and i ate meat, it's the end of the world!" type thing. I don't know why i thought it was funny, partly because i thought it was such a small thing(to me anyway) to get so upset about, but also partly because i figured she was just a vegetarian for the sake of it, to try to seem hip and non-cruel(i'm not saying many vegans are vegetarian for this reason, but i think a relatively few are), and she was getting angry for reasons she didn't even understand; she was just getting mad because she thought she should, not because she really understood why it was bad, or was disgusted. I myself would never do that to someone(deliberately feed a vegetarian meat) though, just to make that clear.

    You are also right that being smart is an evolutionary advantage itself nowdays, i'm not disputing that.

    One thing i will dispute though, is that i should leave this forum because i am an omni. Like i said, i have many vegetarian friends and i am curious about the lifestyle and would like to find out more. I think it's unacceptable for me(as an omni) to be insulted on numerous occassions just because i'm an omni and i sometimes feel the need to chirp in from the other side of the argument and try to clear things up. I am not an "omni troll" that just came to the vegetarian forum to argue with you guys, i was looking through it for reasons previously stated, then i saw some things i could shed some light on from the opposite side(as an omni) and some ideas i could explain the reasoning behind(me being somewhat of a scholar). As i said, my intent was not to say whether it's ok or not ok to eat meat, i simply wanted to share some thoughts and provide reasoning behind those thoughts(like a good scholar ought to). Emotion did get the best of me for a short period of time, so please don't quote any of the stupid things i said, lol.
  3. Summertime

    Summertime Member


    Of course, and I don't mind if omnis come into the forum and defend their arguments- if anything it makes me think about the reasons I'm vegetarian. What I am against, is people giving the omni argument and then getting offended when they are given the veggie argument, especially as it is a veggie forum. I don't believe in generalising anyone if I can help it- I know there are some omnis who will happily listen to the veggie argument. I've been one of them- I only converted a year ago. :)

    Definitely. I agree. I do think however that the author was only intending on discussing those omnis who get angry when told the author was a vegan. I don't think it was meant as a generalisation of omnis. :)
  4. Summertime

    Summertime Member

    *Sorry it wouldn't let me put all of this in one post!*

    Of course, I am very grateful that I can choose not to eat meat. I think DoktorAtomik did present his argument in a respectful and intelligent way (which is what I was originally agreeing with) but omnis do not always present their arguments in a similar way (I realise some do!) and I believe this thread was started to discuss those who do not, those who get angry at a person when they discover they are veg*an.

    Anyway, no hard feelings :)

    Summer. xx.
  5. wow.

    just wow.

    i got to like page 3 of this megara and doc. thing and well,

    megara seems a little bit um........ not with it? um, irrational? hell, i dunno.

    i couldnt even bare it anymore.

    i gotta go run in my barefeet on rocks a bit. it makes me feel better.
  6. DoktorAtomik

    DoktorAtomik Closed For Business

    Hey dude. It's good to see you chill a little. No hard feelings, huh?

    This simply isn't true though. If you honestly believe this, then I'd suggest you do a little research into the industry. The cruelty involved in modern farming is a large reason behind many people becoming veggie. I've seen this for myself first hand.

    I think you misunderstand me. I'm not interested in 'omin bashing', and I hope none of my comments are take that way. I'm also quite happy for meat-eaters to come to this forum and debate their point of view. However, many of the comments made by veggies on this thread have simply been explaining their moral reasoning. Now by definition, that moral reasoning is going to point towards meat-eating being undesirable, or we wouldn't be veggies in the first place. Those comments appear to have been construed as an attack on meat-eaters. Now if meat-eaters are going to take offence at veggies explaining their position, then I would suggest that this forum is not the place for them to be. If they want to listen to our arguments without construing them as personal attacks, and respond to them politely, then no problem! Pull up a chair and make yourself at home :)

    Dude, I got a lot more respect for you now you're being a little calmer and explaining yourself in a less confrontational fashion. Keep it up and you're welcome here as far as I'm concerned.

    I agree with you 100%, kaya. I don't think this thread started out as an 'omni bash' though. I certainly never attack people just because they eat meat. When meat-eaters attempt to justify their lifestyle though, then I think it's only fair that veggies should be able to respond to their arguments. And in fairness, we should do this without attacking them personally or looking down on them for their diet. I mean, we were mostly all meat-eaters at some point ourselves, and none of us are living lifestyles that are morally pure.

    Hardly. A factual statement would be "I think it's a poor analogy". Calling it "very stupid" is a subjective opinion phrased as a personal attack. And I've yet to see you explain why you think it's a bad analogy. You also accused me of having 'lost my marbles', so I think it's a bit late for you to pretend that you weren't trying to insult me. I can't remember the last time I saw you posting in a thread in this forum without attempting to belittle someone. You don't do your position any favours. Responding to reasonable debate with abuse just makes you look ignorant. Why do you come here anyway? Do you just enjoy insulting people? Seems a strange way to get your kicks.

  7. I have to agree with whats been said...

    No Omni can expect to come to a Veggie forum stating their opinions without raising peoples hackles.
    It is after all the VEGETARIAN forum.

    In my view, the place of the Omni in this kind of forum is to provide the other side of the debate and to attempt whilst doing so to give people an understanding of your own omni lifestyle.
    However To my mind an Omni should not be subject to prejudice and judgment because they don't agree.
    Neither should a Vegetarian be. In fact, no0 one full stop should have to be slated.

    I just dont understand why people seem to find it incapable to just DEBATE and discuss matter how heated it gets...........without turning the thread into a flame war full of personal insults.
    It doesnt make anyone look clever. Neither side looks in the right. It just makes people look THICK.

    If u ask me, if u want a war then take it to PMs. Leave the forums for INTELLIGENT debate instead of clogging it up with pages of stupid flaming and a million pages worth of trying to prove a point or clear up a misunderstanding............
  8. Yokai-Tororu

    Yokai-Tororu Guest

    Its good that some "angry omnis" came here to prove her point though! It makes her post so much easier to sympathize with!
  9. InTheFlesh

    InTheFlesh Member

    I just saw an episode of futurama in which hippie veggies are protesting the sales of a new animal food. They raised a veggie lion and it looks emaciated and sickly. It was pretty funny, but I think there's a point that we have to adapt to eating no meat, because some animals were meant to eat it.
  10. joe

    joe Banned

    well, after reading all this.... imma go blow my brains out
  11. shutterfly

    shutterfly Member

    But there are two sides to every coin... I don't know about you, but I wasn't alive during the depression, I've never been starving, nor have I ever lived in a country in which food was scarce...

    I do appreciate that I have the ability to pick and choose what I will and will not eat. If I were starving and someone handed me a cheeseburger( God forbid that would ever have to happen to me) then I suppose I would take it gratefully... maybe. In the meantime I will continue to support my veganism and have no intentions of partaking of the flesh or dairy ever again. It would definately make me happier to see the world as all vegheads but I realize that is pretty unrealistic, so.. for sure.. to each their own.
  12. jesuswasamonkey

    jesuswasamonkey Slightly Tipsy

    Is there any scientific evidence to back up the claim that eating meat increases agression?
  13. shutterfly

    shutterfly Member

    Hmmmmm... what happened to all the posts here? They seem to have all disappeared. Crazy...
  14. shutterfly

    shutterfly Member

    Yea.. the ignore feature would be cool if I meant to use it, but I didn't use it on anyone here. Hmmmm... I tried to pm Skip about it but he told me not to bother him with such trivial matter.
  15. I remember reading a book by Ghandi that spoke about why we should not eat meat. There really is no need to eat meat in this society anymore. We are not starving in the woods trying to survive. Even those tribal omnipeople had so much RESPECT and HONOR for the animals that they killed. They worshipped them, and were not wasteful. They realized that is was a neccisity, and if they saw how we treated life today they would be horrified!!!
    We are getting fat on fast food, and have everything on display even less than a mile away. The grocery store is stocked full of other things besides animal flesh. Do you know how much food they throw away!!! WASTE! Human beings can spare the suffering that these animals have to go through! It is common sense! I have been to a slaughterhouse and my father has inspected Hickman Egg Farms.. It is absolutely IMMORAL and DIGUSTING how we treat these living things. They are not given the respect. Dairy cows are milked until they basically dead and thrown into hamburgers. Do you know that producing milk takes away alot of your nutrients and energy? Imagine breastfeeding for your short 5 year life, and having your calves taken away.Being pumped full of hormones in crowding conditions, and never eating fresh grass. These animals are insane, and tortured and never had the chance to live a normal life.
    Did you know that if 50% of Americans stopped eating meat then we would could use the grains to feed the rest of the world.
    Plants have chosen to be eaten because it spreads their seeds(berries, ganja etc) , and now it even ensures their survival even more because man now knows how to farm. Animals run from you in fear of getting eaten. Plants have been aware that they will get eaten. Some have evovled so they will not be food, but others are here to be eaten.

    It also makes me sick that most people in America eat meat but they could never go and kill an animal themselves. Id like to see them a raise a baby pig into food, and slice its throat. Its just way to gross for most people to deal with. They do not even really want to make themselves aware of what they are putting in their body.
  16. Megara

    Megara Banned

    Did you know that the greeks never sacrificed an animal without its permission? Thats right, all those bulls, and pigs and chickens that they killed consented to their death.

    anyways, no one *really* chooses to be eaten. It is all how we have evolved. The most basic instinct of all animals and plants is to survive and reproduce.
  17. Megara

    Megara Banned

    Well, the bull who put its neck on the chopping block was the one that was "consenting" to their death....also if they sprinkled water over a bulls head and it shook its head, it was "consenting." I'm sure they thought that the animals were actually assenting...pissing off artemis is bad business :D

    as i said though, no one really "chooses" to be eaten though.
  18. Megara

    Megara Banned

    *sighs* it was just a joke and a funny inference. Thats why i said twice, that "no one *REALLY* choses to be eaten"
  19. WalrusKeeper

    WalrusKeeper Member

    Well do I understand the cocurrent development of the human intellect and tool-using. Now how is it relevant to making moral decisions about whether or not killing conscious beings is ethical or not?

    The cannibalism link? By golly! It's silly, isn't it!

    It isn't silly at all - why do we not eat each other? Because we are concious feeling organisms, and to kill each other causes us pain.
    How are other animals different?
    Plants, well, they have no brain in which to register nerve signals and even if they did, they do not possess evidential consciousness - but animals have all of that.
    Meat-eating simply cannot be justified.
  20. Megara

    Megara Banned

    Sorry thats just silly logic. Most animals arent cannibals under normal conditions, they can however become cannibals if their food source is gone.

    We dont stray from eating each other because we realize it causes us pain, or else we'd have strayed away from KILLING EACH OTHER, which we havent for thousands of years.

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