and another thing..

Actually, that is the main message of the Bible. The Bible is a book of many things, the most important being salvation.

Yet, there is a difference... here is where the holy ghost steps in. Don't judge a person in basic judgement. "This person wears these clothes, so they must do this, and that". However, the Bible does say, if you see a brother stepping into the ways of the wrong, help him out. Also, the Lord tells us that the Bible is used for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training us in righteousness. (2 Timothy 3:16) The greatest message Jesus gave us is love. When asked what his greatest commandment was, he replied, "Love your neighbor." Jesus Christ's teaching, are in the Bible. He gives us what we are to learn. But without the power of the Holy Ghost, truth will not be found."

 

Truth was known even before the words "Jesus Christ" was uttered on the lips of man.

 

I couldn't disagree with you more and I challenge you to find the scriptures that suggest Jesus came to be the saviour as God' only begotten son. Note: I didn't say salvation for that term is used many ways - disagree that the Bible spends much time at all dealing with Jesus as Savior.

I see you can pass judgement on people as long as it isn't shallow? You are supposed to 'remove the plank form your eye before plucking the speck of dust' from your neighbor's. You are supposed to 'cast the first stone' if you are free of sin. I agree, we need to help people who are lost, but make sure you have found the way first (ie: you are not just regurgitating things others have told you are true.)

 

Here are a selected few:

Luke 2:11 - "For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord."


John 4:42 - "And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world."


Acts 13:23 - "Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus."


Philippians 3:20 - "For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ."


2 Timothy 1:10 - But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel."


Titus 2:13 - "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ."

Titus 3:6 - Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour."

2 Peter 1:1 - "Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ."

2 Peter 1:11 - "For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ."

2 Peter 3:2 - "That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour."

Peter 3:18 - "But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen."


1 John 4:14 - "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world."

That was not exactly what I said. Granted, we all sin and fall short of the glory of God, however, we do have a responsibility. There is a difference between showing someone truth when they stumble, and telling someone to refrain from something that you, yourself are entertaining.

 

Sorry, I'd been sick for a few days, I'll be happy to answer your questions though. You are absolutely correct, the Messiah was sent to be the deliverer of not only the Jews, but the whole world. The reason the Jewish race is special is only because it is the race through which the Messiah was born. Please understand something about the times in which Christ lived... The nation of Israel was living under the oppression of Rome, and they were not looking for a spiritual delieverer, but a political one. (Thus, they called him "Hosanna", a title for a political leader.) They didn't accept that the life on this earth is not the important one to worry about, it's the life after this one.

Nope, only because I'm a Jew who has accepted Y'shua (Christ's Hebrew name) as the Messiah. I understand the importance of both the Old and New Covanent (Old and New Testament), and the promises made in both.

The World to Come has not arrived yet, and will arrive when the Messiah returns. Will He return in flesh? I really don't know. Perhaps the return of the Messiah is merely a return to Christian values and beliefs, but since I really don't know G-d's ultimate plan for the End, I should act as though each breath is my last, and try to portray my beliefs in the most respectable way I can. Not that I always succeed.

You would think so, but that's not the case. This is the problem that Jews for Jesus tries to combat. Like I said before, the Jews at the time were looking for physical deliverance from their Roman opressors, and when they understood that this wasn't Christ's design, they turned on Him. The book of Hebrews is a letter from Paul (supposedly) to the Jews, attempting to prove Him the promised Messiah of old.

My friend, even if you do not see Him as the Messiah, please recognize that Christ's life sets an example of how to be a moral and influential human being, even when you are the low man on the totem pole. (Trust me, a carpenter from Nazereth could be equated with a plumber from New Jersey... Nazereth is a dump!) If you'd like a better understanding of who he is, read the book of John... I hope this you out a bit!

 

Epiphany has already got these scriptures up, but I just wanted to interject that Christ had been around since Genesis. That is the part of G-d which came to have fellowship with Adam in the Garden. Any time G-d takes action that humans can see/hear in the Bible, it's been said that this is Christ Jesus, because G-d the Father is the Mind of G-d, but Christ Jesus is the heart and body, which intiates action in this world.

Christians are called to tell people of the joy and solace they have found in Christ, tell them if they aren't making the best possible choices, and let G-d alone be the judge, because as harshly as they judge others, G-d will judge them in the same way. (So being open-minded is the best policy, unless you like the idea of being condemned as badly as you condemn others...) If your friend started shooting heroin, wouldn't you try to help them see the error of their ways?

Technically, Christians are supposed to model their lives after Christ's... Christ didn't pass judgements. He came to provide us with love and understanding, and a way to get to Heaven, even though we're flawed. I think that it's important for a Christian to reiterate that they are NOT perfect... but still follow Christ to the best of their ability. When people that aren't believers understand that becoming a Christian isn't an overnight change where you're just going to stop sinning, they become a little more comfortable with hearing more about the Saviour, and that is truly what a Christian is called to do.

As for regurgitating things that I've been told are true, I agree with you, people need to read the Bible for themselves and think about what it says. I've done this, and I know that G-d's plan works in my life, that's why I choose to share what I've found with others, in hopes that I'll save another broken soul, like mine used to be.

 

God God God. Why do you write it "G-d"????

 

Many Jewish people believe that to write out the name of G-d is to take his name in vain, and therefore, breaks a commandment. I certainly don't think it's a sin for others to write it out, I just choose not to. It's not a major issue, it's just the way I was raised.

Thank you for being respectful in the way you asked...
Because being ignorant doesn't achieve much in the way of understanding one another's beliefs, you know?

 

What truth is that, if you don't mind my asking?
I'd be interested to know what's up!

 

Yes, yes, yes I am sorry indeed for overgeneralizing my statements. The new testament is chock full of these lines as the idea of Jesus as Savior took hold. What I should have said is that Jesus, in all he came to teach us, didn't focus on this as important and makes almost no mention of it. The old testament also paints a much different picture of the one prophecied as the messiah. I appreciate you taking the time to find so many references and apologize again for mistating my view. The idea of Jesus as Christ isn't first recorded until almost 200 AD when much of the new testament began to take shape.

 

Are you kidding? He constantly reminded his befuddled disciples that he came into this world to die for it.

Try reading Ps. 22, Is. 53, etc.

This is utter nonsense. See http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/bib-docu.html.

 

yeshua ben yusef, the carpenter/rabbi who was reconized as massiach by a fair number of the jewish people...
this yeshua was well aware of the jewish hope for the long-awaited messiah, the annointed one of israel who would make manifest the kingdom of righteousness...
when the story of his execution at the hands of the romans by crucifixion was spread across the known world (and the gospel story was spread not just to modern turkey, rome, & greece, but quickly west all the way to ireland, south to egypt and eastern africa, & east clear to china... ) --- well, in the retelling, often times words of similar meaning were used in the translation of this jewish story (original languages aramaic & hebrew) into greek (where the word "christos" = annointed of god, came from)(& into latin, & into many other tongues eventually), & with these changes often came differing expectations of what this word (& what this gospel story) really meant...
and the jewish expectations of role the messiah did NOT include the expectation that this "annointed one" would be an incarnation of YHVH in human flesh...
(and, finally, in the gospel of john, presented as co-existant as the son, along with the father and the holy spirit, from the moment of creation!)...
but the dominant thread of christianity historically was the trinitarian view...

well, this has been discussed here before... ymmv...

shalom...

 

Shalom, friend:

I would like to ask you, are you trying to say that because we did not expect G-d to incarnate Himself in human form, that this could not be the case? Human foresight is quite limited, at least that's how I see it.

I can't think of a more perfect sacrifice to end all sacrifices than our Creator sacrificing Himself to make a way for us to be with Him in heaven. It was absolutely imperitive for G-d to make Himself a man... No one can stand before the Creator and claim that He has no knowledge of our struggles in this flesh, because He's been there Himself.

 

I can't think of a more non-sensical sacrifice. God sacrificing himself to himself, to save humanity from a punishment he himself had decided to inflict on us for our shortcomings?

 

well, i'm not saying what the creator of the universe can or cannot do...
i'm just saying that the doctine of incarnation (& the christian concept of the trinity) was not typical of jewish theological musings,
and that incarnation was a fairly common motif in "pagan" theologies (greek, and hindu, and others to be sure) --- alnong with themes such as: divine parentage, virgin births, death & resurrection, etc...

 

Oh, I see what you're saying! You're right, they aren't thought to be very "jew" oriented ideas. Some of these issues were addressed on the Messianic Jewish Alliance website, which you may find interesting: www.mjaa.org
Hopefully, it hasn't been archived!

No, friend, G-d sacrificing Himself for us because we had chosen to reject him. So in rejecting the sacrifice that was made, we choose hell, even though we were never designed for it. And we also choose to continue to revel in our shortcomings, rather than make a conscious effort to live effectively and positively. This is the problem that people encounter daily, Christian or not.

 

ive not read any of this and id think this has already been said but teh fact is

people do not choose their religion (if they are faithful)

they are brought up with it. to change religion would be lack of faith, and so would render their new faith as no more faithful as the old faith except that its been around longer.

the jewish person cannot have faith in christianity, because they have faith in judaism. if they throw away that faith, whcih is based on exactly the same ideals, then what makes their new faith any more jsutified than their previous?

subjective oppinion, not objective logic.

 

Actually, they can, because Christ fulfilled every prophecy the Old Covenant promised of the Messiah. Please read The Book of Hebrews for a better understanding of my view... One does not have to lose their Jewishness to recognize Y'shua as Saviour.

www.jewsforjesus.org

 

ok then replace jew with any other religion lol!

is tehre any reason all teh jews didnt convert to christianity? waht is the jsutification? if they dont, doesnt that mean they dont have faith in god? (for their god is the same god as the christian god, cept a bit more cynicle)

 

I understand where you're coming from in the regard of people following the tradtion of their families, but the challenge comes here: Some folks are from dysfunctional families, and therefore choose to break away from the traditions that they associate with so much unhappiness.

I had posted this before, but I'd love to answer your question!

The nation of Israel was living under the oppression of Rome, and they were not looking for a spiritual delieverer, but a political one. (Thus, they called him "Hosanna", a title for a political leader.) They didn't accept that the life on this earth is not the important one to worry about, it's the life after this one.

It was predicted that for rejecting the Saviour, Isreal would be surrounded by the enemy on all sides... Look at all of the Arab countries that surround them, not one ally in sight. This is their punishment for rejecting the Messiah, until they come around, which has been scripturally predicted.

That's the mission of the Messianic Jews, is to bring Jewish folks around to the understanding that they're waiting for a Messiah that's already come!