Anarchists and others to disrupt Republican convention

I predict that the 2004 RNC will be at least as tumultuous as the 1968 DNC. So go to New York if you can and be a part of history!

 

Hi Revo! Let's talk sometime, ok? A lot's changed and well, we got stuff to discuss (I hope all's well with you).


Hey Newo! Are you gonna go to the RNC, oh and are ya gonna go mess with Bush here in PDX on the 13th? Btw, I got the pic of us at the Bush Bash finally, I'll send it yer way, alright.

Sorry to both you guys for bein' so long out of touch. It seems I just can't get it together sometimes, lol.

Trin

 

Who said I was blaming only the protesters? Oh right, you did. Of course it's the republican party's fault for holding a convention in New York City, they suck far more than the protesters do. I'm pissed at the protesters because they fly into my city from everywhere to satisfy their egos and consciences by holding up signs nobody gives a shit about, all the while being guarded and protected by the very people they are protesting, with no regard or concern for the millions of people whose daily lives are already being inconvenienced by the convention.

Pull your head out of your ass and grow up. How does this have ANYTHING to do with the topic at hand?

You're right. I'll tell my boss I don't feel like coming into work for a few days because of the protests. It's only one week's pay or so I'd be losing right? Not a big deal. It's not like I have to buy food or pay rent or anything.

Will you be at the protests? If so, why don't you ask them yourselves, I think you'll be in for a shock if you think that's what they're all like. I know personally and have spoken with plenty of people who plan on attending the protests, and not many of them are intelligent (I'll give most of them cordial and polite, and some of them articulate). Few out of the ones I know going can hold any type of conversation about politics or current events and at least half aren't even registered to vote. Their personal reasons for showing up are rarely focused on actual political reasons and more often on a "I hate Bush and all republicans are eveil imperialists" rationale.

 

There aren't alot of young republicans, so maybe that's why there are so few counter protestors. But wait til all the crazy ass Nam vets get into the protestors.

 

i was watching "daily show with ron stewart (i think thats his name)" and they said you had to right this oath thingy to say that you'll vote for bush, if you dont you cant get in.I found that pretty amusing...

 

Honky Tonk, I'd hate to burst your bubble for a second time, but many of the protesters coming to demonstrate against Bush ARE Vietnam Vets.

"Their personal reasons for showing up are rarely focused on actual political reasons and more often on a "I hate Bush and all republicans are eveil imperialists" rationale."

Wow Max, I think you just topped any potential "protester's stupidity" with that one comment alone!
How did you come to this conclusion? How did you arrive to the idea that protesters are using only this extremely simplistic and superficial rationale that you proposed? Have you run an online survey or poll? Did you ask individual activists what their reasons are for protesting?
I bet you didn't. In fact, I bet you're making that assertion out of pure ignorance, intolerance (for those who disagree with you or "inconvenience" you--poor baby) and without any basis for justification.

In short, try to keep your lil' mouth closed until you know what you're talking about, otherwise you risk your own credibility as a person who uses logic and methodical calculations to arrive at what you summise. You're exemplifying the general apathy and outrageous stupidity of today's youth pop-culture and it sickens me. I really don't understand why you're even bothering. Sorry, but I don't. I suggest you read a book.


Trin, nice to hear from you again. I hope all is going better for you.

To clarify what monkeys was trying to say, on the Daily Show they showed a forum in which Dick Cheney spoke to a live audience. The audience was let in only on one condition: each individual in attendence had to sign a pledge promising to endorse (vote for) Bush/Cheney in the upcoming election.
Anyone NOT supporting Bush/Cheney was systematically barred from attending, thereby leaving no room for dissent, debate, or hard-hitting topics. Not surprising coming from possibly the most secretive politician (in the most secretive administration) in United States history.

 

Revo Mystic, your inability to read or comprehend anything that you don't like to hear astounds me.

Actually yes, I did, as I so eloquently stated in my post:

Try reading before going off flaming people who disagree with you. Or just stop flaming people you don't like whenever they bring up a valid argument.

I bet I did.

No, I made that assertion out of the impressions I've collected through conversations with at least dozens of people over the past weeks, some who I know and some who I don't know, about the protests.

I don't really give a shit what you're opinion of me is.

 

Care to show me some numbers on Nam vet statistics? I think it's a given that vets are usually more conservative.

 

I don't have any harsh feelings toward you. I think you're just cynical and have much to learn.

Ok, sorry for overlooking your statement that you talked to "dozens" of activists. My mistake.

So let me ask you this: on what basis did you determine that the activists you've spoken to are not intelligent or using intelligence for purposes of protesting? And in how much depth did you dicuss the issues?

What is your definition of "intelligent"? Because I've talked to many activists who are very fluent with the issues (much better than myself) and are quite intellectual, and have very well thought out ideas of why protesting is necessary. Here's where the real debate begins.

Oh and, the "dozens" of people you talked to are representatives of themselves as individuals only and not reflective of the expected number of protesters arriving in the city which is between 300,000 to a million. So...only a "dozen" you've talked to? C'mon now.

 

I don't have any basis for determination really. It's not like I hand out a questionaire to everybody I know with a premeditated grading scale for people I talk to. I guess I judge them based on how well they convey their thoughs, what their thoughts actually are, their level of overall intellect (you can pretty much tell how smart people are by talking to them) and their basis for holding what beliefs they hold. There were some who told me they were protesting because they didn't like the current administration, disagreed with Bush or the Republicans on a number of issues, etc. and I think that's a great reason to protest. However, there were many more who had reaosns like "Bush is trying to take over the world and must be stopped," but after I tried to discover the basis for those beliefs, I realized that the people who thought that didn't know jack shit as far as facts about globalization or [real] imperialism, and little about politics. "Bush is only interested in oil" is another popular catchphrase among the protesters-to-be, although most didn't even know what Halliburton and Carlyle are. How can one seriously play the "Bush is only interested in oil" card without knowing what Halliburton and Carlyle are? Plus, I just got the feeling that a lot of the people I spoke with just weren't all that bright. Hell, a few didn't have any real idea what the convention was for or what was going on, they were just going to meet people.

As far as how in depth, it depends. The conversations ranged from a hour-long luchbreak at work to phone conversation to internet conversation to standing in line at a store for a few minutes chatting, those are just a few examples.

My defenition of "intelligent"? Someone who can back up an argument with reasonable proof, evidence and logic without resorting to cheap shots or insults would be "intelligent" to me. I have spoken with activists who are informed and educated on the issues as well, but in my experience their numbers are outdone by activists who aren't.

No, I said "dozens," and the number is probably over 40, maybe 50 or 60 over the past weeks to months. It's hard to live in New York and not come accross a lot of people who plan on attending the protests. If I'm not supposed to base my opinion of the protesters on the protesters themselves that I come accross, then what AM I to base my opinion on? Some guy I meet on Hip Forums?

 

I don't think the place you meet someone matters at all. A supermarket, or the hipforums, so that comment was unnecessary.

So a few people you spoke to are questioning possible conspiracy theories. Maybe they're just starting out. You have to begin somewhere right? I don't equate lack-of-knowledge about an issue with lack-of-intelligence. Do you?

Give them a year...if you were to speak with them in a year, I'm sure they'd have more information to impress you with, since your opinion is the end all of political discussion.

Also, the quoting of my virtually every line is somewhat bothersome. I feel like I'M being graded. Can you try speaking like a human being?

 

Hey, that's how a lot of people debate on Hip Forums. Refute your opponent's argument point by point, right?

But since you weren't a dick about it, I'll stop for this thread.

I think there's a differnece between a person "questioning possible conspiracy theories" and sounding like a moron trying to make a political argment which he/she clearly knows nothing about. And I also think that I'm smart enough to tell that difference.

I'm not going to go out looking for all the people I causally talked with in line at the store or on the subway in a year, that would be impossible. I also don't think my opinion is thre end to all political discussion. I can always be persuaded with facts, you just haven't put forth anything that would cause me to question what I already believe. Since coming to Hip Forums and being here for a couple of months I admit I've definitely changed my opinion on a lot of topics after arguing with Lick, Babus, Ellis and even Pointbreak. If you can give me a convincing argument, I'll reconsider what I think (and hopefully you the same).

 

Thats absolutely rediculous! They didn't protest the Democrat convention, and they won't protest the Greens. But the Republicans deserve it? I wouldn't protest the Democrats or Greens either, just as I would expect them to my convention alone!

It'll be funny when one of the "anarchist" gets held without bail, speedy trial, right to a lawyer, or hope of seeing light again. I'll laugh!

 

Hippy hunter, you'll laugh?

one of 2 things:

you'd also laugh at the Constitution and everything this country supposedly stands for (freedom to speak out, liberty, etc) which, by definition, would make you an "anti-american".

or, you're part of the New World Police Order..."hippy hunter"...afterall, that sounds pretty ominous to me, despite it's cute lil cover-sound.

Do not trust people like "hippy hunter", he's probably working for an "anti-terror task force" trying to (as he actually stated!) lump radical activists in with actual terrorists. It won't work, not without an all-out Revolution in the most literal sense of the term.

Max, I'd love to debate any issue with you, now that I'm pretty sure you're a decent person and not some lunatic FRINGE like "hippy hunter".

 

"IF THINGS ARE SO BAD, THEN WHY ARENT THEY WORSE"

kind of a lame argument dont you think?

 

what are you talking about. there were people protesting the Democrat Convention and they weren't just the portesters penned up outside the Fleet Center. Oh my fault, those Bostonians protesting weren't covered in any news so you probably wouldn't have known about them. Before you go and make rediculous statements like people not protesting the Democrat Convention, learn something before you say something.

 

Hi Revo, I'm back to yer thread finally, lol. I posted a similar message to Newo in his Portland Bush/Kerry thread, so please bear with me the repetition, sorry:

I was over at the Bush thing at Southridge High School in suburban Beaverton, Oregon, it rocked. There were about 1000 ppl there and most were there to protest Bush for a number of different reasons. Of course, some of the President's supporters were present as well, but not too many, maybe about 150 or so trying to shout us down. Not a chance.

I'd like to go on and on about it here but I'd better not do that, I don't think that'd be cool here in the forums. If ppl really wanna know from me what went down then PM me and I'll let ya know what it is. I would say more about it here but the movement is under such harsh criticisms from trolls these days that I'd rather not tempt any flame just now. I will instead remember today as a good day.


The five of us PDX Subvertistas are just hangin' out at my place, goin' over the day, each of us in our own particular idiom. We're hatchin' stuff too and talking going on about press coverage and local exposure we got today as a group, http://subvertical.org Today we passed out 300 quarter-sheet Subvertical flyers to enthusiastic hands. By the time we left we saw none (count them, none) on the ground or otherwise discarded. Then again it might just mean that Oregonians don't usually litter, lol?


One of our new PDX members kept bringing ppl to talk to me about SVA and what we're on about. They were ppl she knows from the anarchist movement who all seemed to wanna hook up with something new like Subvertical. Many of them are presently disillusioned with their respective groups, each cited heirarchy as what they didn't like about them. The fact that we Subvertistas aren't heirarchial or that we can't outrank one another is key to our likely and thus far obvious pattern of appeal and growth, not like the old CFASR.


Well, we got a lot of video footage of the event, about 2 hrs worth from 2 cams, really sweet coverage too. It'll be available as a file pretty soon, tomorrow probably. I put this here so you could see that protesting does have a good effect for the movement anywhere it happens and maybe this can be tied into the RNC in NYC events to come somehow, at least in terms of how the anarchists can choose to netwerk with one another (of course, you already knew that). I'll hopefully see ya later Revo and maybe back in the listserve too because it really is all different now.


Trin

 

No mine is liget. Well if the GOP has brainwashed everyone, why the hell aren't they ahead in the polls 90 to 10%? It was a dumb statement to sya the GOP controlled the masses.

 

As usual you're taking things out of context. It's probably a little, well, impossible to brainwash everyone (to the detriment of the Empire). The GOP controls the masses in a practical (physical) way...namely, "coercive capitalism". Forcibly pitting human against human in the proverbial "rat race".

 

Those unfamiliar with the realities of power politics may find it hard to believe that there is any harmony of purpose between the protesters in the street and the delegates inside the summit. But there most certainly is; the WTO one-worlders are paying for an important service. For one thing, the street theater that the radical demonstrators provide is a wonderful diversion distracting public attention from the subversive schemes of the WTO's "free trade" negotiators in the silk suits. Secondly, the repulsive appearance of many of the WTO protesters and their lawless actions make the WTO proponents appear conservative and eminently respectable by comparison. The same repellent image of the demonstrators also serves to taint and discourage all others who might otherwise oppose the WTO on completely legitimate, principled grounds. No patriot wants to be associated with such revolting rabble.

The rent-a-mob agitators also provide a compelling pretext for the further erosion of liberties and advancement of the police state, in the name of order and homeland security. In view of past violence and destruction caused by demonstrations against the WTO, FTAA and World Bank - not to mention the possibility of 9/11-type terrorism - local Miami residents and officials had good reason to be fearful. But Uncle Sam came to the rescue; Congress rolled $8.5 million for security for the Miami summit into the multi-billion dollar Iraq funding bill. And the result? Miami became an armed camp, as armored vehicles, helicopters, SWAT teams and riot police swarmed over the city. It is a scenario that has become more and more common as communities are forced to respond to the threat of mayhem from the civil demolitionists.

Finally, the street agitators offer another very important service: They provide a pretext for the globalist elites to grab more power supposedly in response to the demands of "the people." The "Battle of Seattle" provided an excellent example of this pincers strategem at work. With the city still smouldering, the Council on Foreign Relations in the Clinton administration agreed to listen to the concerns that were motivating the protesters. Led by the Ford Foundation's professional radicals Lori Wallach and Ralph Nader, the Seattle protesters demanded that the WTO move beyond its exclusive focus on trade issues and adopt international labor, education, environmental, and health care standards. The CFR global corporatists have been only too happy to accommodate these appeals to expand the transgovernmental jurisdiction of the WTO.


In summary, this is ALL just theater for you. Call it the world's biggest reality show ala Joe Schmo.