an old one but a goodie - dear warmonger and war supporter why won't you go to iraq?

Guy, I usually enjoy reading what you write... but asking if someone believes in God in a political forum isn't exactly necessary.

Sun Lion is right. We're just turning Iraq into a puppet state. It's not an accident that so many nations hate our guts... It seems that only Americans are oblivious to this fact.

Pax Romana 2.0 - http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/08/23/arts/melik23.php

Red Dawn - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087985/ - "It is the dawn of World War III. In mid-western America, a group of teenagers bands together to defend their town, and their country, from invading Soviet forces."

If you want to call people trying to defend themselves from invaders as 'insurgents' then go ahead.

If the same thing happened in America, then be ready to be called an insurgent by our invaders.

 

Why are you taking up for the insurgents? Insurgents seems such a commercialized word now, but for definition sake I'll use it. If you want to make an analogy between Iraq and the U.S., then be fair about it. If the government of the United States crumbled, along with the police and national guard, the country would errupt into chaos. There would be wars between drug cartels, organized crime, latino, black, and asian gangs, etc... Radical religious groups, white power movement, anti-government (militia) would all surely join the fight. These would be the insurgents, as they are in Iraq. And don't think for a minute that any of these people would have your best interests in mind. It is no different in Iraq. The insurgency is largely made up of criminals and fanatics, funded, trained, and fueled by foreign terrorist groups.

 

Would not be so bad if that was true.

 

It is true. It's a resistance movement. I am not saying that their aren't nutjob fanatics causing problems, but their is also the other side of it.


Hell, even Iraq war veterans are saying this.

You can't just ignore all of the evidence that points to this being true... That would be the equivalent of me ignoring that there are trouble makers in Iraq when their clearly are.

There is a good side to the war and a bad side.

 

You may have had a point a few years ago.
I think that paradigm has changed.
I'm glad you see that there are others factors.
It just seemed like you hadn't.

 

the religious fanatics have taken over the american government, if the american public spent more time understanding what is going on - on earth and less time being told what they should believe in the war would be over tomorrow.

we shouldn't kid ourselves that the religious fanatics of the problem don't visit this site. they cheer on the war yet won't go to it, they'd rather disown good old jesus three times before the cock crows to justify the war.

so the war goes on.

 

This makes no sense whatsoever.

 

It's still true. The damage has and still is being done. You have agents dressing up with fake beards, trying to appear as though they are terrorists... Am I supposed to believe that this is just a matter of a bunch of assholes going crazy, or something that is done intentionally to cause fear and a false belief?

Are we supposed to believe that a large majority of all those killed in the war (655K +) were insurgents? Even if only 65k of that were terrorists, that is still pretty insane and unbelievable. All of these people are insurgents? I don't think so.

I mean, just look at what the CIA (et al) have been doing to other nations for decades... Taking down leaders (sound minded leaders that were actually good for the country) to install our own. No offense to you. I enjoy debating with you, but it is credulous to think that our government is only after the common good. The power that be, will do what they can to keep their power; this has been true throughout history. I believe that the large majority of the world are good people, and because of that, cannot see how others would willingly cause harm to others, or how others would desire power - It is completely mind boggling to them - This causes us to become too trusting.

'We' are intentionally creating chaos in the world. Do I believe that all chaos is a result of this, no, but it does add a big chunk of it.

 

I'm not quite sure I know what you are talking about when you say: You have agents dressing up with fake beards, trying to appear as though they are terrorists.
The only thing I can think of are those two british agents from about three years ago... and: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9447
Have you any evidence for what you are talking about?

I'm afraid you do because it is true
There is an apparent motive behind their madness.
But it does boil down to a bunch of assholes going crazy.

: intentionally to cause fear and a false belief.
Could you clarify that point for me?

No.
Sadly, the majority of people killed are innocent people.
Where did you get the figure 655K +?

Could you name a few sound minded leaders that were actually good for the country?
IMO Don't apply a one fits all template to this situation.
Ofcourse there are other reasons governments are there other than for "the common good" but It is the major factor, as naive as you may think I am for saying that, IMO I do think it is true.

The majority of the world is good but "we" are not?

This one is not one for me I am afraid.
I don't buy into that notion at all.

 

this is not totally unexpected.

the war supporters and the war supporter supporters usually have problems understanding the concept of going to fight in a war they support. what are you this week ? a war supporter, a war supporter supporter??

i find your beliefs a little hazy and hard to nail down, remind me will you??

 

My son is in Iraq right now...for the 2nd time. So in a way I guess I did my part.

Personal there isn't enough money in the whole darn world to get me to go into another country for a war

 

I was taking it personaly (and it was late )
Once I did not (and I was a little more alert ), then it was a little more clear.
I'm not American, neither am I in the American government.
So was a little confused why you would bring that up when talking about if I was religous.
Do the religous right support the war, some do some don't, it is not a prerequisite.
All types of individuals support the war.
The more you go on, guy, the more prejudiced and unfair you become, sorry.

What I can gather is:
You support the war (in what ever capacity) you go fight in it.
I hope it is as simple as that.
If it is, then all this guff about religeon and the religous, is just that, guff.
And as I think I have said, I think the idea that if you support the war therefore must go fight is, well...go re-read what I thought if you like.

What am I this week? The same as I was last week and the week before.
Nothing has changed apart from the conversation.
I'm sure you lurk sometimes.
Maybe you should join in more

No.

 

Done your part?
If I read guy right, YOU must go fight if you support the war.
But I'll let you have that conversation with him.

 

tell me more odon

 

Ask me questions.
Not ones already asked, please.

 

well luckily I am to old...and I would not have ever passed the physical to ever get into the military even when I was young.

 

I don't think this minor point matters.

 

This is a interesting point, and a good question for Guy. If a 90 year old woman happens to agree with the war, but for obvious reasons cannot go fight, is she a warmonger and hypocrite? Should granny strap on some flak, grab and M4 and hit the front lines? If a veteran who lost his legs in the Vietnam war supports the war in Iraq, is he a hypocrite if he does not re-enlist? Where do we draw the line?

My problem with what Guy so adamantly believes, is that the US military is a volunteer force. They have volunteered to fight, for whatever the cause. And I have been around enough military personel in my life to know that many of them put their lives on the line for their country. They fight for the people who cannot fight for themselves. I would challenge you to take a poll of Iraq war veterans, and ask them what their definition of a hypocrite is. Ask them if their countrymen and women back home who support them and their mission, but have not enilisted, are hypocrites.

Guy, do you think child molesters, rapists, and murderers should be off the street? If not, then why? If so, why don't you join law enforcement? Are you a hypocrite?

Guy, do you think the genocide in Sudan and Myanmar should continue? If so, then why? If not, then why do you not go there to stop it? Are you a hypocrite?

An old one but a goodie? Sounds like a false premise to me.

 

well im not guy! and it is late ! i do want to respond to this! but to give it its due ill have to wait! its midnight and dinner is on the stove!

 

in a matter of life and death no one is above fighting for their beliefs

if you are old go and drive the trucks on the road to baghdad if you think the cause is so good.

no one supporting any war should think themselves above putting themselves in danger for a cause that they think so true and just.

one day in the real deal would be a good dose of salts for all but the most fanatically indoctrinated.

no leader should send troops to war without accompanying them in their struggle. see how long the war would last then.

as i see no one putting their hand up to go and fight or drive trucks then i see no one has any conviction.

whacki - are you a ninety year old women?