All you hippies would love for Iraq to turn into Vietnam.

Discussion in 'America Attacks!' started by Chongo Blanco, May 9, 2004.

  1. Chongo Blanco

    Chongo Blanco Banned

    How many times should a rogue nation be allowed to defy U.N. resolutions before something is done? How many times can the world community THREATEN to use force and then back down? How long can the world stand by and watch? I admit that some of the reasons we went to war with the Hussein regime turned out to be false, but can you honestly admit that there were still not enough reasons to get rid of the Hussein regime. What incentive would there be for rogue nations to comply with U.N. resolutions if nothing is ever done? Economic sanctions? You know as well as I do that sanctions hurt the people more than the governments.
    Some say the U.S. needs to mind their own business. Maybe you're right. Maybe we shouldn't get involved in other countries problems. Maybe we should cut off the BILLIONS of dollars in economic aid that we give the foreign countries every year. Maybe we should ignore the starvation and genocide that has happened and is happening in Chechnya, Bosnia, Somalia, Iraq, North Korea, Phillipines, South America, and so many other countries. Perhaps we should have ignored Hitler.
    What really is pissing me off lately is the controversy of the "torture" of the iraqi prisoners. Arab leaders are demanding apologies and that the soldiers involved be reprimanded. They are demanding. Now that takes some fucking balls. I didn't hear one arab leader say anything about the four americans that we recently killed in iraq. No, it wasn't pictures taken of them naked. They were just burned alive, dismembered, drug through the streets and hung from bridges. But that is not worth mentioning I guess.
    All you protestors can ever say is what we shouldn't do. For once I would like to hear what we should do. If what we are doing is wrong, than what should we do to fix the worlds problems???

    Peace from the home of the Great Satan America!
     
  2. i think to fix the world's problems we need to all come together....
    so someone can kill us all, except the new sex addict, incubus, and someone very fertile! ;) then we can have a lot of little fidgety crack feigns running around!
     
  3. Megara

    Megara Banned

    we should say we are sorry because we ARE better than those thugs who killed the 4 americans....thats why we shoudl say we are sorry....we are trying to bring a democracy to iraq..it is CRITICALLY important...and will be a huge triumph for america if we can actually bring democracy to the middle east....if saying sorry is the least we can do to help bring that along...then by all means, say you're sorry in every language if needbe
     
  4. it would be a HUGE triumph for america if we were actually trying to bring democracy to iraq...instead we are ruining any chance they'd have at it.
     
  5. Loki

    Loki Member

    Alright first off my problem with Iraq is the randomness of it. Think about it, the WMD turned out not to be true, so the only other reason we went, our goverment claims, was to rid Iraq of an evil dictator. Now thats what pisses me off. Saddam is obviously not the only one out there, and as bad as he is, he is not the worst. There are countless atrocities occuring all over the world. We only get involved when there is something to gain.

    Secondly as for the torture issue. They occured in a military prision, with supposedly professional soldiers gaurding them. Now i am not saying that its ok to drag boddies though the street, in fact its horrible. But those acts were commited by civillians who honestly feel that there is an invading army taking over. You can't imagine that being done by some Americans in a rural town under the same circumstances.
     
  6. Megara

    Megara Banned

    You're right..we act when there is something to gain..like everyone else. Unfortunately, its not as simple as saying its oil. Its democracy in the middle east. The middle east has been a mess since Alexander died and it hasnt gotten any better. The sooner democracy can sprout there, the sooner we all can live in peace.
     
  7. Loki

    Loki Member

    YEah but the key thing, which we won't allow, is that the Iraqi people have to choose the type of government they want. Thats one of the main ideas of democracy. What if a large majority decideds they want a completely Islamic based nation. Now if we stopped that are we stopping democracy?
     
  8. Megara

    Megara Banned

    we did it in italy..the CIA funded and screwed with elections in that country to ensure that the commies didnt come to power(which they were).....


    Its not a democracy when you vote yourself out of power. If the people wanted the islamic cleric to step down, do you think he would?
     
  9. Chongo Blanco

    Chongo Blanco Banned

    You say that we only get involved when there is something to gain. Why do you honestly think we are there? Probably for the oil. Do you have any idea how much fucking oil we would need to just pay for going to war in the first place. Saying we went to war for oil is careless and ignorant.
    Believe it or not, the justification behind the U.S. military actions around the world are for the good of the world. I know that is hard for some of you to swallow and is not as cool as believing in some huge government conspiracy. Do you know that the U.S. government has a "plan" that would theoretically eliminate any future war? The "plans" basis is simple global economics. How many countries have we gone to war with in the past that have been involved in the global economy? Prospering countries have no reason to go to war with prospering countries.
    We have been called War Mongers. Don't you think that as the worlds only democratic super power we have an obligation to help people who can't help themselves???
     
  10. God

    God Member

    God commands peace, not war. I hate it when God's children kill each other!
     
  11. Megara

    Megara Banned

    Agreed, America solved the "world problem" when we solved the "german problem." Now we just need to export it to the other parts of the world. Germany ceased to be a violent nation when they were integrated into a society where they had to rely on others for their economy(mainly france). Much to the moans of thatcher and mitterand, we pushed for German unificatoin and germany has been introduced as a normal nation that doesnt seek world domination anymore. Now we just need to make other parts of the world dependent on us(The west).
     
  12. Blue Lobster

    Blue Lobster Member

  13. Jaque Imo

    Jaque Imo Up on The Lowdown

    Actually, South America is a continent.
    But hey...Bush says that Africa is a country, so at least you guys share a misconception...or maybe you just "misunderestimate" the intellect of your audience. Also, if you look back to the 200 campaign, one of the major parts of the Bush/Cheney platform was to PULL OUT of Bosnia, and South Korea. Bush claimed that "nation building" was wrong. Sadly, once he had the power virus swimming in his empty skull, he couldn't resist. If you actually believe that Bush invaded Iraq for "The Good of the world", I'm sorry, because thats pretty misguided. We don't act on behalf of the world.
     
  14. Megara

    Megara Banned

    its key position in the middle east...the fact that the world has an embargo on it made it an easy target.
     
  15. Tsubasa

    Tsubasa Member

    I agree that there are times when something should be done, where the international community must step in and say enough is enough. But it should be done as an international community not a few countries going rogue of the UN. I sometimes wonder if Bush didn't rush ahead with the war to keep up his momentum in the War on Terror...
    As to the issue of Arab leader demanding apologies for the torture, I am glad the have. We deserve to apologize, just because rebels in an occuppied state did something to our citizens doesn't give us the right to retaliate. Treat others as you would have them treat you.
     
  16. LickHERish

    LickHERish Senior Member

    Let those who continue to swallow the lies and sanitised spin that passes for "news" in our beloved nation consider for a moment how they would react to foreign soldiers kicking in their doors in the dead of night and dragging their families out to be "interrogated", shot or any other brutal act that falls under the misnomer of "pacification".

    Frankly, any American who claims we have any moral or legal right to remake other nations by force and who shows contempt for those who dare defend their nation against such imperialistic aims should be equally willing to stand by and refrain from any patriotic act of national defence when our time comes (and our empire will surely crumble as have all others throughout history) to be on the receiving end of all the shit we have directly or indirectly perpetrated on other sovereign nations.

    It is the height of hypocrisy for anyone who advocated this war based on the littany of falsehoods (which have all subsequently been exposed for the deceit they are) to now call the "poor Iraqi citizens" (the image painted by Bush and co. to justify removal of Saddam) "terrorists" and "thugs" for doing what any patriotic American would be expected to do in their place.

    We are the only "enemy" in this conflict since we brought it to them not vice versa.

    We shall be paying for this appalling abuse of power for many years to come both financially and in terms of our national integrity.
     
  17. Megara

    Megara Banned

    the UN security council said NO to kosovo...yet we and europe justify it.....WHO is the international community? How many people need to say yes for it to be a consensus? everyone? 5? 10? 20? 50? 100? do we make value judgments on what each country is worth? i.e is uzbekistan worth less than germany? who answers all these questions?
     
  18. Megara

    Megara Banned

    No, america has no more "legal authority to remake any country." But we do remake countries in the way we see fit. Thankfully so. Thankfully we didnt walk out of europe like FDR wanted us too, thankfully we didnt leave japan or germany to themselves....We have solved many problems(and created some) by fashioning governments.

    If Iraq was an abuse of power. So was Kosovo, so was virtually every american war. The only reason we got a UN resolution for the first iraq was becuase bush41 put 500k troops on the border of iraq and said we are going with or without the UN.. remember that? didnt think so.
     
  19. Tsubasa

    Tsubasa Member

    The Kosovo point is an excellent one. It goes to show that while the UN security council does do good, it is also capable of making mistakes. I think, however, that in the vast majority of cases, the UN does an adequate job of handling things. The UN may have a more cautious approach than the US would in the same situation, but charging headfirst into any conflict we see is only going to put us on a more troubling situation than our current one in Iraq.
     
  20. Megara

    Megara Banned

    Personally i disagree. I think it was our militarism that won us the cold war. Our threats to the soviet union to bomb them to hell(Yes it was us who was threatening them first, not the other way around.) Our use of force all around the world that protected Europe and other parts of the world. Our use of the military has made us strong and the world stable, it hasnt destabalized the world.
     

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