Alexandira Ocasio-Cortez is a result of Trump

Discussion in 'Politics' started by unfocusedanakin, Jan 6, 2019.

  1. Meliai

    Meliai Senior Member


    The quality of whose healthcare?? Lol. Almost all European countries as well as Canada and Australia and Japan rank ahead of the US in healthcare.

    Anyways I agree the term socialism is divisive and should be avoided, but I don't come across many lefties who use the term...they usually nuance it as "democratic socialism." Or call it a mixed market economy. Or refer to the individual programs they're in favor of. It is usually rightie tighties like yourself who force the word socialism on everyone.
     
  2. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eyed salmon

    I remember when the left would scowl at dissidents for calling Barack Obama a socialist. Saying that it was a dishonest misrepresentation. Back then, socialism was a bad word.

    Now, they revel in using that word as they continue to misrepresent ALL countries with mixed economies and government controlled healthcare as socialist.
    If Obamacare in this country is so great, and public healthcare in all the rest of those countries is even better, how come politicians both here and abroad get to avoid it by getting top their own notch private healthcare plan?

    If a politician supports public healthcare, they should have to use it.

    If a politician wants to wage a foreign war, their kids should fight in it

    If a politician wants to disarm the public, they should fire the Secret Service

    Mice die in mousetraps because they don't understand why the cheese is free. This is socialism.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
  3. Meliai

    Meliai Senior Member

    why are you still talking about socialism? We've already been over this

    You're incredibly disingenous and it's impossible to have a real discussion with you
     
  4. Pressed_Rat

    Pressed_Rat Do you even lift, bruh?

    The woman is a total moron but being heavily promoted by the system to push the left even further to the left, and thus closer to all out NWO-style socialism/tyranny.

    Go figure: braindead millennials love her.

    Like, um.... totally!!
     
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  5. Pressed_Rat

    Pressed_Rat Do you even lift, bruh?

    And I totally agree that Trump is being used to make the left nuttier than they were to begin with. Trump creates an emotional response in people on both sides of the controlled paradigm, and thus the reason why he was allowed to become president. Divide and conquer. The man is a good actor, much like Bernie Sanders and all the other deceivers who have gotten rich off of conning the masses.
     
  6. Pressed_Rat

    Pressed_Rat Do you even lift, bruh?

    Ocasio-Cortez is merely a young, attractive Latina whom the system has glommed on to and are using as their puppet to push a truly draconian system of enslavement under the guise of cotton candy and pink bunny rabbits.
     
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  7. Meliai

    Meliai Senior Member

    Lol
     
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  8. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

    One more time: "the Left" is a construct, not a monolith. Fans of Barack Obama would balk at calling him a socialist because he wasn't one. Why milennials are enamored with the word "socialism" is a mystery to me. I suspect it's at least partly due to their high regard for Bernie Sanders, who likes to use the label. Possibly, there is some inter-generational rebellion going on in embracing one of their parents' bugbears. Probably also, it's because they experienced the failure of capitalism firsthand in the crash of 2008. Maybe they also were turned off by the spectacle of tea baggers and so-called "libertarians" intransigently opposing Obama at every turn and denouncing his "socialism" while the economy steadily improved. Or by the widening gap between rich and poor: in 2015, the top 1 percent of families in the United States made more than 25 times what families in the bottom 99 percent did. Or because they noticed the same folks who cry "socialism' also seem to spew racism, sexism, and homophobia. Why millennials are drawn to socialism

    The purpose of public healthcare is to enable even the poor and middle class to afford health coverage. In the United States, which has no single payer program but relies on public assistance for insurance coverage, private insurance provides better coverage. In countries with good single payer plans, people who can afford it may wish to go private to reduce the wait, or gain access to specialists outside the referral base of their GP. A politician can, in good conscience, support public healthcare while relying on private health insurance, in order to facilitate coverage for those who can't afford it. The "libertarian" alternative is to let those unable to afford it go without--a twenty-first century equivalent of "let them eat cake".
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
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  9. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eyed salmon

    Because this is an AOC thread. She’s the poster child of 2019 socialism, is she not? So far her proposals have zilch to do with “mixed economics.”

    The Cult of Balbus likes to and push and push for socialism, and then when true examples of socialism come up, they backpedal into the mixed economy model.
     
  10. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

    The first statement seems fair enough, if there is a draft instead of a volunteer army. The second is obviously a non sequitor. Wanting to disarm the public wouldn't necessarily eliminate the need for the Secret Service, since it might not be effective in eliminating attacks by trained assassins and mental cases.

    Does this make any sense to you? Are you seriously suggesting that government programs are a deliberate trap to ensnare the public, who would be better off without schools, affordable health care, environmental regulation, social security, etc.? And that such programs--all characteristic of your vaunted "mixed economy" are (gasp) "Socialism"? What a load of horse pucky! Maybe people who post such nonsense should do without all public support, including unemployment assistance, and see how they get by.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
  11. neonspectraltoast

    neonspectraltoast Best Member

    Why is it that all socialism seems to be is utilizing taxes wisely?
     
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  12. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

    Technically, socialism involves either government ownership of the means of production and/or distribution in a society (as in the case of state socialism) or abolition of the state altogether (as in the case of anarchist socialism). The concept goes beyond utilization of taxes for welfare state benefits. Right wing pundits like to throw the term around loosely to include welfare programs or any public involvement in the economy, but that's just a propaganda ploy.
     
  13. Meliai

    Meliai Senior Member

    Dude...this is what i'm talking about. You are trying to conflate a mixed economy with socialism. You shouldnt have to be disingenuous to make an argument. If you cant make an honest point you seriously need to rethink your position.

    What example of socialism? Be specific. AOC's proposals have included medicare for all, investments in green energy, and a 70% marginal tax rate.

    Please indicate which proposal involves the government takeover of all private industry. I'll wait.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2019
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  14. Flagme15

    Flagme15 Member

    Calling people socialists is the de rigueur ad hominem for people of a conservative bent.
    Why? Because they don't get it.
     
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  15. unfocusedanakin

    unfocusedanakin The Archaic Revival Lifetime Supporter

    You share views with most of the conspiracy community. The threat is ALWAYS a left one. They never see their religious gun owning culture and the hate and division it brings as bad.
    For example the NRA types in the country are very open in preparing not for a war with the goverment but with people who do not support Trunmp. In other words not demo racy at all yet they would rather censor and dominate. They never see the mixing of goverment policy and region as a threat (yet seem to hate Sharia law which is the same idea).


    You don't see say for example Trump's desire to censor the press as NWO like? Of course not since it's "right wing". Instead you focus on high tax as some sort or Trojan horse. You really don't understand governments if you think suggesting 70% tax on earnings over 10 million and addressing global warming is a threat to society. Those two things are the main points of the Green New Deal. This tax means things like college are now more affordable. Hardly a threat.

    You have fallen for the ticks the elite play on you. They muddy the dentition of what "socialism" is so much eventually you fight to the bitter end over it when you have no idea what it means. In the end that system benefits them only. You literally can not comprehend a middle ground between trickle down ecomincs and lines for spoiled goverment cheese.
     
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  16. tumbling.dice

    tumbling.dice I Am Only An Egg Lifetime Supporter HipForums Supporter

    70%? Jesus! Has she proposed a balanced budget and responsible government spending to go along with that? Because if not I'd rather just withdraw my own money and burn it.
     
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  17. Pressed_Rat

    Pressed_Rat Do you even lift, bruh?

    This proves you know absolutely nothing about me as I am neither right-wing or pro-Trump. I am 100% apolitical. I do not believe in the political process, and I do not vote. I do NOT support Donald Trump!!

    I think Trump is playing the part of a buffoon, but I do not have the sheer vitriol and hatred for him that the mentally ill left does. That could be partly because I see through his facade and realize he is just playing a character. If you are triggered by him, then you are falling right into the trap, just as is the case for the people who blindly worship the guy as if he is daddy.

    I actually believe one of the things they are using Trump for is to incite or "trigger" the left in order to move the left (including the Democrat Party) further to the left. At the same time they are using Trump to marginalize anyone with constitutional, limited government views as dangerous racists.

    Of course Trump has done and continues to do things that are tyrannical and unconstitutional. I have long argued that Trump is merely an actor playing the role of "bad cop" in a scheme to deceive the masses who take this crap at face value.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2019
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  18. WritersPanic

    WritersPanic Greasing up my Staff Member Super Moderator

    I've noticed that any expression that's not hard left can instantly paint me as a Trump supporter. I wonder if hard leftists are also inclined to call me an athletic supporter since I watched the Superbowl?

    Really though, you're right on the mark about the division by design we see happening in the US. What's amazing to me is how many otherwise intelligent people snap to the party line at the least perceived criticism of their leaders. I wonder how many click their heels as they do it.
     
  19. neonspectraltoast

    neonspectraltoast Best Member

    Trump does a little too good of a job playing the buffoon. I don't think it's all an act. He just isn't very bright. And it's really unfortunate that our president is such a boob.

    All he cares about is him and his rich friends staying rich and a class above everyone else. All centrists care about is their shot at becoming one of the elite. The true left just wants taxes to be spent wisely so that everyone can have a higher standard of life. If Trump and his ilk have their way, the rest of us will be living on garbage planet while they fly off to live on the moon.
     
  20. Meliai

    Meliai Senior Member

    It wouldnt affect you at all so no need to do that.

    It's a marginal tax rate. Which means only income above a certain amount would be taxed at 70%. So if the threshold was set at 10 million, any dollar made above 10 million would be taxed at 70%.

    This isnt a radical idea. The marginal rax rate has been as high as 90% in the US before. A high marginal rate was the norm until Reagan and it helped the US become a wealthy superpower. We built our highway system because of it.

    It also encourages corporations to invest profit more responsibly in ways that benefit society. If a corporation knows it will be taxed at 70% above a certain amount will it allow the government to take that money or will it put money back into employee salaries, benefits, etc?
     
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