Alex Jones

Discussion in 'Politics' started by polymer, Jun 24, 2006.

  1. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    Angel do you really think discussion about just what the world you live in is to be like and how it is to be run is just minor and unimportant?

    You say that you don’t want to discuss political systems because all systems will just be as bad as the next so you are not trying to fight some revolution to change the way the entire system works.

    But what do you want?

    You say “I just want to EXPOSE the criminals who are inside our government right now”

    But why bother if you think that whatever happens a new set of criminals will just take their place?

    I mean you say one of the things you object to is being lied to, but Rat lies and you seem to support him? If you are just willing to support one set of liars against another set of liars, what’s the point of it all, why bother, you’re not going to change anything, in fact your likely just to make things worse.

    You try to reassure me on this point by saying that I must know both you and Rat mean well, but do you?

    You seem to be saying you don’t really care if there are criminals or liars in power that is just what happens whatever the system, you just want to expose this set. Is that your definition of meaning well? Will that make things better? Will that be a better world?

    As to Rat his views are very right wing and any world created on those set of ideas would definitely not be my definition of a better world. To me rather than meaning well he means ill.

    So do we really have a common cause?

    You say we’re sick of the death and the war and we’re sick of the Bush’s government involvement in it.

    But you just seem willing to replace one bad government and accept another, while Rats views would in my view bring in something a lot more dangerous and brutal.

    I don’t like the Bush Administration but to me it isn’t just Bush’s team that are at fault it is the American political system that needs to be addressed or after Bush will just come other administrations that are equally as bad or worse than his.
     
  2. Angel_Headed_Hipster

    Angel_Headed_Hipster Senior Member

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    "I mean you say one of the things you object to is being lied to, but Rat lies and you seem to support him? If you are just willing to support one set of liars against another set of liars, what’s the point of it all, why bother, you’re not going to change anything, in fact your likely just to make things worse."

    show me the lies and I'll agree with you...on the other hand I could show you video of Rumsfeld saying he knows where the "nookular" bombs are in Iraq, that is a lie. Just because Rat has political views different than yours you seem hellbent on attacking him, more conservative free market economies have been succsefful than more liberal socialistic ones in the past. Far left is Stalin and Far Right is Hitler though, it's bad on both sides. This country had the best economy in the world and was the freest country during the mid 20th century, because we had a gold standard that backed up our money, now we don't and america is plummeting into debt, the only reason our government is so corrupt is because bankers have taken hold of our government because we owe them so much money and they now dictate the policy, if we could end this which actually is possible, then our own government in our own country could change and we could do something about the corruption. You try and make it seem Like I have no hope, and it's hard to have hope in todays political climate, but I do have hope. I think we can change things but not by voting democrat or by arguing with people who have more of a conservative stance than your own, if we ever want to make an actual positive change in this country we need to all be on the same side, united against the perpetrators of 9/11 and all these wars and this police state.
     
  3. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    “show me the lies and I'll agree with you”

    Rat lies every time he claims he has answered a question or refuted an opinion that he clearly hasn’t.

    He or you could always go back to the Rat debate thread and prove me a liar.
    http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112948

    **

    “on the other hand I could show you video of Rumsfeld saying he knows where the "nookular" bombs are in Iraq, that is a lie”

    Rummy said he knew where the WMD’s were because he had ‘evidence’. At the time many people (including me) thought that evidence weak, being made up of innuendo, supposition and opinion, that we believed wouldn’t have stood up to scrutiny in an open and honest debate. As it was Rummy and the neo-con supporters accused those that disagreed with him of being ignorant and even aiding the ‘evil’ terrorists, although they ran away from real debate.

    Rat claims he knows Satanist Zionist Bankers are trying to bring about a worldwide fascist government and he puts forward evidence that seems weak and only made up of innuendo, supposition and opinion. Which doesn’t seem to stand up to scrutiny when debated. Also Rat and his supporters accuse those that disagree with him of been morons and possible agents of the ‘evil’ conspiracy, although they run away from any real debate

    Rat also claims he ‘knows’ he is right because he has greater spiritual enlightenment than other people, a bit like Bush when he said he knew he was right because he was connected to God.

    **

    “Just because Rat has political views different than yours you seem hellbent on attacking him”

    Rat has right wing views and a great number of his posts on the politics forum are attacks on left wing ideas and he admits it.

    I’ve tried to discuss his views but when he finds he can’t defend them he runs away often after calling me a name (he has called me ignorant, a moron, an ignoramus, weak, helpless, pathetic, an idiot and many other things)

    All I’ve been pointing out is that many is not most of his views never seem to stand up to scrutiny.

    **

    “more conservative free market economies have been succsefful than more liberal socialistic ones in the past”

    This is an opinion and one I disagree with, do you care to try and defend it?

    What do you mean by a free market?

    By what means do you gauge success?

    What is “more” conservative?

    What is you definition of liberal and socialist?

    **

    You try and make it seem Like I have no hope, and it's hard to have hope in todays political climate, but I do have hope.

    When asked what you wanted to do you said “if I did any of this I would be killed not too long after my inauguration”

    Presumably you thing anyone that tried would receive the same fate?

    **

    “I think we can change things but not by voting democrat”

    Do you mean that just voting Democrat will not change things (since you didn’t mention any other party) or do you mean that voting in general doesn’t change anything?

    Are you suggesting change by some other non-democratic process?

    **

    “if we ever want to make an actual positive change in this country we need to all be on the same side, united against the perpetrators of 9/11 and all these wars and this police state”

    And to do what?

    Do we rise up overthrow the Bush regime and install an unelected government, so that it can do what?

    Or are we to join together in electing for one political party, if so which one and what are the policies they will have?

    **

    For example one of the things you want us to unite behind is freedom of speech (I would guarantee Freedom of speech”)

    But I pointed out that in the capitalistic and free market based world that you support, media outlets are very likely to be owned by rich individuals and corporations. In such an environment these groups would dominate what is seen as ‘the news’ and manipulate people’s viewpoints in much the same way as they do now.

    To this you replied – “of course it's hard to mainstain free speech in capitalism, because it's hard to maintain free speech in ANY system, theres always people who want to hijack WHATEVER system there is and make it benefit them and destroy the masses”

    So you want us to unite over a policy you don’t have any faith in and believe will fail?

    As it is you didn’t even seem able to answer the criticisms levelled at your other suggestions

    “I wouldn’t let corporate lobbyists involve themselves in any way in congress and do my best to keep corporations out of government"

    How? I mean in a capitalistic and free market based system, money is still the means to gain power and so such corporations would still have the ability to manipulate the system.

    “I would not allow any secret societies or secret groups to be involved in any level of the government”.

    The problem with this is that it could very easily turn into a witch-hunt, I mean how do you find out how is supposed to be in these ‘secret societies’? What level of proof will be needed is due process to apply? Rat has accused many people of being part of ‘the conspiracy’ but he hasn’t ‘proof’ only innuendo, supposition and opinion, that was all that was needed for McCarthy? Are people to loose their jobs or freedom based on suspect information?
     
  4. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    Think about it Angel

    You want to install a government with right wing views, based on the principles of a capitalistic free market (that you don’t seem able to defend) with at least one policy you think is useless, that very clearly wants to conduct a witch hunt based on very suspect evidence.

    And you’re telling people they should support this without question!
     
  5. Lodui

    Lodui One Man Orgy

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    I would consider almost none of the convoluted distortions and inane meanderings of shadowy conspirators or RFID's in money, of Alex Jones diatribe to be worthy of a reaction.

    I was in Austin while the guy got let go from his old cable acess show when a conglomerate bought him station out and didn't have any room for it. It was entertaining to watch someones mental illness get the best of them.

    Honestly, I suspect him of being more like Howard Stern of crazy then himself actually being crazy. He's a shock jock. I might pay a little more attention if I thought he really believed any of the crap he says.
     
  6. Pressed_Rat

    Pressed_Rat Do you even lift, bruh?

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    I don't care much for Jones myself, Lodui, but 98% of what he says is backed up with mainstream articles, declassified government documents, and government insiders. The overwhelming majority of the people Jones has on his show are far from what you would call "conspiracy theorists".

    He's even had lame-brain Ann Coulter on his show, whom he did a great job of setting straight.

    Alex Jones Interviews Ann Coulter

    In this interview, Coulter seems like more of the crackpot than Jones. She doesn't even have her facts straight, yet how many uninformed idiots take the crap she spews as gospel?

    Jones attitude and his delivery are what make him come off as a nutcase, but his information is pretty solid for the most part. He doesn't go half as deep as some people -- myself included.

    For the most part, Jones has become pretty mainstream. Many informed people like myself will find Jones to be a loudmouthed, egomaniacal jerk, but they cannot deny the things he talks about.
     
  7. ~MorningManiacMusic~

    ~MorningManiacMusic~ Banned

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    Hey Balbus..Aren't you from the U.K?I heard/seen(videos)that theres surveillance cameras on every street over there?What do you think of that?
     
  8. Pressed_Rat

    Pressed_Rat Do you even lift, bruh?

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    I am sure he believes they're for his well-being and to stop Arab terrorists.

    He appears to be infatuated with the state, so it's likely the cameras are welcomed by him.
     
  9. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    MMM

    I’m against unwarranted surveillance of any kind, but remember that many of the cameras in operation within the UK are private, owned by companies and businesses.

    The other reason why many local authorities and constabularies use them is because they have budget constrains. Places like parks, car parks, buildings used to have human attendants but it was cheaper to have cameras and a central viewer also it s cheaper to have cameras rather than have police officers on the beat.

    Rat

    As I understand it you don’t believe in interfering in private business and believe that government’s should be the least financially burdensome on its citizenry while doing it’s job. Are you now saying that you would regulate against companies or businesses using cameras and think that government should employ more expensive methods?
     

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