AIDS denialism

If AIDS denialists made it all up, what's their purpose to your opinion?
If it is profit, how do they profit from this?

thx

 

Me neither. Id never heard that

 

you've forgotten the fact that a virus can stay in an a state of suspended animation for thousands of years without dying. even if there are no hosts around for them to attach themselves too, they are very patient entities. spores can do the same thing, so no it isn't always necessray for a virus to cling to a living host in order to survive.

 

yeah, i'd too like to know how "aids denialists" profit from swaying people from having blind faith in cdc and who information. if they gave us all of the pertinent information regarding our health. we wouldn't need doctors anymore.

 

That's like saying "why would anybody lie"? Its a bit naive. If you think only money making corporations would lie then you are a prime candidate for conspiracy theories.

 

They never used those exact words to describe vitamins. I was exaggerating. However, they are constantly coming out with studies funded by the drug companies, demonizing vitamins and claiming they actually lower one's life expectancy, which of course is total nonsense. At the same time, there is a global push under codex alimentarius to make vitamins and nutritional supplements illegal without a prescription. Just a few days ago the FDA banned a form of vitamin B6, saying it's a "drug." These vitamins have the power to prevent and CURE cancer and AIDS alike. Yet, we are being told these vitamin supplements are, at best, worthless -- at worst, dangerous.

 

Because they want MO' MONEY!!!

 

I agree that the talk of banning the sale of vitamins and minerals to the public is awful, and it does make me angry. I personally would be a bit lost without the medications I have sought out for myself seeing as all I get pushed on me at the doctors is the same old harsh shit that I react badly to and makes things worse, and theyre so useless at listening to what I actually need

However vitamins and curing AIDS is a whole different kettle of fish. Ive never seen or heard of any evidence showing AIDS can be cured this way, and you cant come out with a statement like that and expect people not to find that a bit outlandish and be wanting evidence and further explanation...It may also be seen as offensive to those who know people with AIDS or HIV...

 

I would be too, except there are no plans to ban the sale of vitamins and minerals to the public. Vitamin B6 is for sale right here.

It can't be, this is quack medicine.

 

Learn how to read. I said A FORM of vitamin B6. Yes, you can still get pyridoxine. What was banned is another form of B6 called pyridoxamine, which is now being classified as a drug. See http://www.naturalproductsinsider.com/hotnews/fda-nixes-pyridoxamine-in-supplements.html. Codex alimentarius, which is very real, seeks to basically classify all vitamins as drugs. This is already happening in some countries over in Europe, and now Canada is taking drastic measures to outlaw vitamins.

As far as vitamins curing AIDS... yes, they can (and do) in high doses. That's why people who began taking mega doses of vitamins shortly after their diagnosis are still alive today and virtually symptom-free, while those given toxic drugs like AZT are now dead. Of course the medical establishment has sought to demonize the effectiveness of vitamins curing AIDS, but why wouldn't they? The medical establishment is based on making and/or keeping people sick to make a profit.

Mega-doses of vitamin C are being studied also as a potential cancer cure. The fact is, the cure for cancer has been around for decades. There have been many of them, all suppressed. Perhaps the first example is the resonant frequency generators of Royal Raymond Rife, who had his career and life destroyed because of what he knew and the technology he had developed.

 

Oh I see, pyridoxamine, which is for sale right here.

Oh really? DRASTIC MEASURES to OUTLAW vitamins? Maybe you haven't taken your anti hysteria vitamins because that is complete crap. Ask Aristartle.

This is complete quackery.

 

How dense are you? Just because it's still sold online, does not mean that people living in the US can purchase it. It was declared a drug by the FDA, that means you can still purchase it outside the US. So of course there are going to be online stores that sell it. If you read the link I posted, you would see that this form of B6 can no longer be sold over-the-counter in the US.

FDA Effectively Bans Common Form of Vitamin B6 (Natural News)

As far as vitamins being outlawed, all it took is a quick two second serach...

EU to outlaw popular vitamins (Daily Mail UK)

Canada's C-51 Law May Outlaw 60% of Natural Health Products; Big Pharma Pushing to Criminalize Supplements (Natural News)

Natural health products threatened: time to fight back (The Examiner)

 

I just called and they said they can ship it anywhere in the USA.

And as usual two seconds is about the limit to the mental effort you put into your "research". I could google search UFOs and get hits in two seconds, doesn't prove anything.

The first article is from the always-in-a-state-of-panic Daily Mail, the most EU phobic newspaper in the UK. It is, not suprisingly, long on fear and short on specifics. In other words the sort of article your conspiracy websites would link you to. It is so vague I can't even respond to it.

Your second article is a fearmongering piece of hysteria by the natural foods industry. Yes industry Rat, vitamin sellers are just as profit motivated as the pharmaceutical industry. But fearmongering works, well enough that the Canadian government had to put out this response.

The third article is a meandering editorial which.... oh who cares. You don't. You promised to show me "drastic action" to "ban vitamins" and here we are, your usual crap. You do not actually care whether anything you say is true, as far as I can tell you consider truth to be completely irrelevant.

 

Natural News is a natural health advocacy website. It has nothing to do with the natural food industry.

If the website you listed is shipping to the US, as you claim, then they are doing so illegally according to federal law.

 

That's right Rat, if reality and your claims contradict, reality is wrong.

Just forget about it and pop a few more vitamins.

 

I agree,thats why I don't see vitamins being banned etc.And I am a very big critic of the pharmaceutical industry(specifically the US drug companies) because I am in favor of good medications,but the big drug companies are not anymore.

 

I suggest you do some background reading about Gary Null before you assume that he has no financial interest related to the view he is propagating.

.

 

"the view he is propagating" is the usage of natural and alternative remedies (various health products, such as hair- and skincare, pet care, air- and water purification etc) , which he seems to sell, using his website http://www.garynull.com (as some people use the hip forums trying to sell jewelery or herbals, so when they promote their stuff on the forums, their financial interest is obvious), but how is it related to our discussion here? From the 50 dvds he offers, only one is about AIDS and I guess it is a movie, that is available on google for free (correct me if I am mistaken). I think, the profit he would make, using AIDS Denialism Theory as a way to attract people's attention to his products, is nothing compared to risk he takes, getting involved. He seems to be pretty succesful, he's got a tv or a radio show, wrote over 70 books, has numerous awards and has been on market for almost 3 decades. I can agree on the idea that he could profit from making people believe AIDS is caused by unhealthy living instead of HIV, because in that case they would turn to his products (may be?), but then again taking a huge risk of losing everything. If you go to google the first you find are wikipedia article and an article on so called Quackwatch resource (claims to be "Your Guide to Quackery, Health Fraud, and Intelligent Decisions"), after reading both of them one finds out that G.Null was just a cook and his degree (Ph.D. in human nutrition and public health science) is not appropriate for what he's doing. However none of them mentions that apart from everyting else he is also generally known as an investigative reporter and a journalist, which (in addition to the fact that he has tv/radio talk-shows) explaines well his interest in AIDS Denialism theory.

But what about others?

Peter Duesberg- a professor of Molecular and Cell Biology at the University of California, Berkeley. "He isolated the first cancer gene through his work on retroviruses in 1970, and mapped the genetic structure of these viruses. This, and his subsequent work in the same field, resulted in his election to the National Academy of Sciences in 1986. He is also the recipient of a seven-year Outstanding Investigator Grant from the National Institutes of Health. Prof. Duesberg's findings have been a thorn in the side of the medical establishment and drug companies since 1987. Instead of engaging in scientific debate, however, the only response has been to cut-off funding to further test Professor's Duesberg's hypothesis." here is the link to his site http://www.duesberg.com/



Not only doesn't he profit, he seems to lose


"Kary Mullis won the 1993 Nobel Prize in Chemistry for his invention of the polymerase chain reaction technique for detecting DNA. This is the technique used to search for fragments of HIV in AIDS patients." He supports Duesberg's views, what for? he seems to profit from AIDS industry well enough.




And there are hundreds if not thousands of others, quite serious credible medical doctors and bio scientists.



Thabo Mvuyelwa MbekiPresident of South Africa from 14 June 1999 to 24 September 2008, he suffered substantial political fallout for his support for AIDS denialism.


That's why I asked, because if these people profit, then in a way that isn't obvious to me.

 

well, since nobody else seems to post, here is what I've read on this topic so far

AIDS Denialists
=============================================================
Quotes from Duesberg's books:

If AIDS were a conventional viral disease :

1 Virus causes specific and
contagious disease. It is present
in every case of this disease, e.g.
polio (see Koch’s postulates).*

AIDS
Over 26 infectious and non-infectious
diseases, e.g. weight loss, cancer, dementia,
are AIDS-defining, and many cases are AIDS
virus-free.* No evidence for contagiousness.*

2 Short incubation periods, because
infections are fast biological
chain reactions (generation
times: 8-24 hrs, multiplication
rates: 100-1000-fold).*

AIDS
“HIV infections show signs of AIDS, [if at all],
[only] within 5-10 years” (Durban Declaration,
Nature, 2000).* Yet, HIV replicates in 24 hrs.

3 Disease occurs, if high % of
target cells is lost.

AIDS
High % of T-cells lost in AIDS. But only 1 in
500 T-cells is infected.*

4 Disease is self-limiting by
immunity or is fatal within
weeks.*

AIDS
is not self-limiting.

5 Viral epidemics increase and
decline within months,
forming bell-shaped curves
(as per 2-4).*

AIDS drags on over 2 decades*.
“No end in sight” (Durban
Declaration).

6 Pathogenic viruses are
horizontally transmitted.
Transmission to newborns is
likely fatal.

AIDS
HIV is naturally transmitted
perinatally (from mother to child)
– the hallmark of harmless viruses
and microbes.*

7 Random in population.

AIDS
highly non-random. In US &
Europe close to 100% are male
homosexuals, intravenous drug
users and recipients of cytotoxic
anti-HIV medications.*

8 Preventable by vaccine.

AIDS
No vaccine in sight. Yet,
numerous virus vaccines have been
developed since Ed Jenner’s pox
vaccine in 1793.
======================================================

Koch’s postulates
In the 1880s Robert Koch discovered that tuberculosis is
caused by a bacterium.
This discovery was the first proof of the germ theory of
disease.
After Koch the germ theory became so popular that
numerous investigators tried to blame numerous diseases,
ranging from cancer (7 Nobels!) to tennis elbows, on
microbes and viruses that later proved to be harmless
passenger microbes.
Therefore, Koch defined the criteria for a pathogenic
microbe or virus, which have since been called Koch’s
postulates.

HIV fails Koch’s postulates
Years of research may have
been spent on organisms
never proven to cause
particular diseases.
Whenever one speaks about,
or hears about, a disease,
one should always seek to
find out if Koch's Postulates
were performed.
The microbe could be a
passenger instead of a
cause. Examples are:
Leprosy bacterium / AIDS
virus/ Cervical ca virus.
1 . The same microorganism must be present in every
case of the disease.
2. The microorganism must be isolated, alias cloned,
from all other microbes of the host and grown in pure
culture.
3. The microorganism from pure culture must cause the
disease when inoculated into a healthy, susceptible
laboratory host*.
4. The microorganism must be isolated in pure culture
from an experimentally infected host.
* The incubation period from infection to disease is determined by the growth
rate of the microbe.
========================================================

According to the peer-reviewed literature:
• Not one doctor or nurse has ever contracted
AIDS (not just HIV) from over 929,985 AIDS
patients recorded in the US by 2004. But 1000
contract annually hepatitis from patients.
• Not one of the thousands of HIV researchers
has contracted AIDS from HIV.
• Wives of hemophiliacs have not contracted
AIDS from their husbands.
• There is no AIDS-epidemic in prostitutes.
• There is no pediatric AIDS epidemic from
“perinatally” transmitted HIV.
And all this happened, in the absence of a vaccine!
Thus AIDS is not contagious.
========================================================

If HIV does not
cause AIDS, what does it do?
The vast majority of viruses are harmless passenger
viruses that do not cause a disease on their own.
The most harmless passengers are perinatally-transmitted
retroviruses.
Others may cause “opportunistic diseases” in immunodeficient
people or animals.
========================================================

Definition of a passenger virus
1) Is either present or absent during a disease.
2) Typically infects and is neutralized long
before a disease, but infection may coincide
with a disease.
3) Is typically rare due to immunity, but may
be abundant due to immune deficiency (Reo
virus, Adeno virus, Cytomegalo virus).
========================================================

HIV meets criteria of a passenger
virus – exactly
1) Only antibodies against HIV are detected in most AIDS patients.
Therefore, AIDS is defined by these antibodies since 1985.
2) In 1989 Schnittman et al. (al. include Fauci) and in 1990 Simmonds et al.
find out that only 1 in 500 to 1000 T cells of AIDS patients is infected
by HIV.
3) In 1993 Duesberg collects references for 4,621 HIV-free AIDS cases
from the literature.
4) In 1993 Piatak et al. deduce from in vitro amplification that “loads” of
HIV RNA vary 100,000-fold in AIDS patients! Since there is only 1
infectious virus per 60,000 such HIV RNAs, many RNA “loaded”
patients are virus-free.
5) In 2006 Rodriguez et al. show that there is no correlation between
AIDS and HIV RNA “loads” (determined by in vitro amplification). RNA
loads are high, low or undetectable in asymptomatic carriers and in
AIDS.

 

So Gary Null is justified in spreading misinformation about AIDS and using it as a backdrop to promote his supplement business because of the other business risks he takes. Kevin Trudeau does much the same.

(there are always some who will tout Trudeau as a hero and people's champion)

Or is the argument that Null must be correct about his claim that HIV is harmless because he's taking a huge business risk if it isn't true.

.