After the eighth school shooting in seven weeks – some gun control proposals

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Balbus, Feb 15, 2018.

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  1. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    A never said the majority of police officers are biased.
    But the ones that answered the survey are clearly biased as they expressed a determination to neglect certain laws if they don't like them. What kind of police officers are those? They get to pick and choose what laws to enforce?

    As far as me producing a contrary survey, why would I have to? Your survey isn't valid to begin with.
    You haven't posted anything that proves anything either way or even gives us a reason to debate about what the majority of police officers think.

    All I'm saying is that your survey doesn't prove anything. I tried to post a link to the survey but the site screwed up. Here's the pdf.
     
  2. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    From your link:
    And so on, a very good article as it points out how hard it is to determine the causes of reduced crime. To continue the quote from where you left off:
     
  3. Maccabee

    Maccabee Luke 22:35-38

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    However if it doesn't do anything then at all then why advocate it?

    A better question is how many criminals see the automatic feature as something pratical? There's a reason why pistols rank the highest among firearms used in crimes and it has little to do with availability. But to answer your question, there have been a few high cases since the NFA but that doesn't answer whether the NFA was the cause as there were few incidents with automatic weapons to begin with. But even if the NFA worked, it only worked because there were few firearms that fit the NFA criteria. To try to put a registry on over 400 million firearms now will be a logistical nightmare and there will be plenty of unregistered firearms floating about. In fact Australia's buyback program hardly dented the number of privately owned firearms.

    I'd still like to see evidence of licensing legal gun owners working as well.

    It's always recorded.

    I'm confused by the double negative but I assume you mean that there's no evidence of registration failing. To which I've already presented evidence showing how useless it is. It's up to you now to counter that argument of examples of countries reducing their gun crime by registering firearms.
    However it leads to an easy path for someone else to take it from you. Califotnia required everyone to register their scary "assualt" weapons and now they are banned, the UK required everyone to register their handguns and now they are banned, and Nazi Germany required all guns to be registered and then banned the guns from the Jews.
     
  4. storch

    storch banned

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    I don't have to argue that because you have no proof that it's true.

    You believe it's true because their opinions aren't in line with yours.

    And what laws are they neglecting to enforce?
     
  5. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    I'll go through this again...one more time...then I'm just going to ignore it.
    The AR15 was developed by the ArmaLite corporation as a variant of the select fire AR10. The AR10 was used by many nations as a military rifle. The AR10 was also sold in limited quantities to civilians in the U.S. with the automatic mode disabled.
    The AR15 was developed from the AR10 based on the Army's new six pound weight limit. The AR10 weighed too much. So they lowered the caliber and reduced the parts dimensions.
    The AR15 was marketed as a combat weapon. General Curtis LeMay requested 80,000. The request was denied because the M14 was in use and it used a different caliber of ammunition.
    So the original AR15 was a military weapon.

    After continued debate and testing (the charging handle was re-located) the AR15 was renamed the M16.
    When Colt decided to produce a civilian version of the M16 (AR15) they disabled the auto fire and again called it an AR15.
    Same gun.

    In my own words.
     
  6. storch

    storch banned

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    It also points out the difficulty in determining the causes of crime; for instance the relationship between gun ownership and violent crime.
     
  7. storch

    storch banned

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    Yes, but unfortunately we're talking about the civilian version--the semiautomatic version.
     
  8. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    I never said gun registration doesn't do any good, you did.
    Right, few automatic weapons because of the restrictions.
    Do you understand the problems with assigning causality?
    No law in my state that I have to register serial numbers on guns
    Read Storch's FactCheck link.
    Yeah, they're coming for your guns, all of them......
     
  9. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    LOL, You know I really try to have serious debates here but when you don't even take the time to read what I post, or for that matter what you yourself post, I feel I'm just wasting my time. And if you are reading this stuff then you clearly aren't comprehending what you read.

    I'll post it again:
    Question #14 on your survey asks the opinion of the responder to a situation in which a leading law enforcement officer would not enforce a law requiring more restrictive gun legislation. In other words the police chief or leading police enforcement official would disobey the very law or laws they have sworn to uphold, thereby making them in violation of the law. 48.8% would support non compliance with the law by their superior officer or officers.
    This alone is enough to condemn the entire survey as it illustrates that $48.8% of the respondents will not uphold the law and in fact back those that also would defy the law.
    Same with #15 although the rate drops to 44.9%. I can't believe these officers would actually admit to picking and choosing which laws they would enforce.

    Let me restate. If a law is pasted that requires stiffer gun laws and the chief of police ignores it, almost half of the police in the survey would also ignore the law.
     
  10. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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  11. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Yes, but unfortunately the AR15 was designed and marketed as a combat weapon and an order for 80,000 was sought for use in combat and the only difference between those 80,000 and the civilian version is the disablement of the auto fire function. Automatic firing is not the only criteria for a combat weapon.
     
  12. storch

    storch banned

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    You're still condemning law enforcement for speaking their mind. And you haven't offered any proof that the ones who don't fall in line with your thinking are biased.

    As far as their opinion of some law enforcement leaders’ public statements that they would not enforce more restrictive gun laws in their jurisdictions, they must believe that more restrictive gun laws are useless. Why, what did you read into it?

    You can take some consolation in the fact that not all of them felt strongly about that.
     
  13. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    In Kolbe, , the defendants pointed to the AR-15 and similar weapons’ clear origins and continued marketing as guns developed for the military. The government’s lawyers pointed to gun companies’ own marketing materials: “Colt relies heavily on the AR-15’s military origins, features, and specifications when marketing to civilians, boasting that its rifles are ‘based on the same military standards and specifications as the United States issue Colt M16 rifle and M4 carbine.’” The court agreed, ruling that the difference between the semiautomatic and automatic versions of the weapons is “slight” and that law enforcement officers and soldiers are often advised to use the semiautomatic feature because “it is more accurate and lethal” in many situations. The AR15 had its day in court. The court applied heightened scrutiny in favor of the pro-gun party and still ruled that the AR-15 was military style.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
    McFuddy and MeAgain like this.
  14. storch

    storch banned

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    So the ones who weren't interested in responding didn't respond. The ones who did respond weren't in lockstep, so you still don't have to worry about everyone being in cahoots on this.
     
  15. storch

    storch banned

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    Now you're getting it!
     
  16. storch

    storch banned

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    I believe that "style" is the operative word there. You're still relying on the judgment of those you regard as your mental superiors. It's a semiautomatic rifle. The difference between it and other semiautomatic rifles is what? Is it the magazine size? What is it exactly that scares you about it?
     
  17. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    The court didn't think that was a big deal.
     
  18. storch

    storch banned

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    That say more about the court than it does the rifle.
     
  19. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Of course I condemn any law officer who tells me he or she will selectively enforce only the laws they want to. If I had my way they would be immediately fired. That's not an opinion, they said they would support not enforcing laws, not that they didn't like the laws.

    I really don't care what these guys think about the uselessness of laws, their job is not to think about the laws their job is to fairly enforce those laws. It's the domain of the public, the courts, and the legislatures to determine the uselessness of laws not police officers. When they put on that uniform they become agents of the law, period.
     
  20. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Geez...I've been saying this for weeks!

    The AR 15 is an M16 with the automatic feature removed. A military weapon!
    But You don't get it !!!

    You think the only thing that makes a gun a military weapon is that it has an auto fire mode. Not it's design, original intention, or capabilities.
     
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