After the eighth school shooting in seven weeks – some gun control proposals

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Balbus, Feb 15, 2018.

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  1. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Super Moderator

    Events sharpen the mind and highlight problems, and so yes I’m going to talk about it and yes I’m going to use this to push my political viewpoint – this isn’t about disrespecting the victims it’s about accepting the reality that if things don’t change there will be more victims.

    And yes I know the majority of gun related deaths occur in everyday events but that again is just another reality of this the problem they are everyday events

    And yes I know the anti-gun control people will be here to muddy the waters with their flawed and corrupted arguments but hey been there.
     
    wilsjane, Jukai and skip like this.
  2. mcme

    mcme lurker

    It's apparent anyone who has a view that differs from yours is only going to muddy the water, but I'm going to suggest teaching young people self control again vs. passing a new set of laws that will only be ineffective and affect the law abiding people.
     
    SpacemanSpiff likes this.
  3. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

    If the laws are better and well enforced it could make more people subject to it (ooh subject to a law. Sounds bad doesn't it? Well just weigh the pro's and cons of the situation, instead of imagining a pointless or dubious law no majority wants or advocates anyway. There may also not be need for more laws, just revised. They're obviously not working now, although some people might deny that until they lose a kid or other close one themselves... hopeless). Kids like these should not have access to guns in any way. Let alone how easy they can now. An AR-15.. come on guys. Undefendable
     
    mysticblu21, wilsjane and skip like this.
  4. Pete's Draggin'

    Pete's Draggin' Draco Dipedibus Staff Member Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator HipForums Supporter

    Current Wisconsin state law:
    Anyone who has been convicted of a felony may not possess a firearm in the state of Wisconsin.

    I would like to propose: in addition to felony, add words ( and or misdemeanors)

    Pete's proposed Wisconsin state law:
    Anyone who has been convicted of a felony and or misdemeanors may not possess a firearm in the state of Wisconsin.

     
  5. diesel#

    diesel# Member

    Laws won’t stop someone from doing harm if they’re set on doing it. It was illegal for this guy to murder. It was illegal for him to take the gun on school grounds. I’m sure a magazine or rifle ban wouldn’t have stopped him if those two more sevier laws with far harsher penalties didn’t. Com’on any one with half a brain cell would realize that.
    If all guns were outlawed, do you really think all guns would be turned in? No.... Yes the law-abiding would turn theirs in, but that would make situations like school shootings more prevalent. School shootings take place because 1. Society likes to shelter children from guns, so when a troubled (bullied, abused, etc) teen has access to a firearm they get an instant sense of power. 2. Once you’re able to gain entry into a school it’s like shooting fish in a barrel, with little resistance until the police show up. 3. Again blame society and the breakdown of family. More and more children have nobody to look up to for a role model. Parents let technology raise their children, and medicate them when they become hard to handle.

    Bottom line, Schools need to teach gun safety. All Schools need metal detectors. All schools need armed security (teachers, guards, etc). Active shooter threats need to be met with equal force.
     
  6. Asmodean

    Asmodean Slo motion rider

    A 19 year old shouldn't be able to get his hands on such a gun. It's retarded. Current american gun laws are retarded.
    Laws DO prevent people from doing this kind of harm, even though they'd really like to. Allover the world. If there would be no laws at all in the USA there would be more of these incidents. Please make a better argument.
     
  7. Flashdown

    Flashdown Member

    In my shit hole country we have very strong gun laws. Even though these gun laws exists, if someone wants to get hold of a gun to cause shit or do a crime they will get hold of it some way or another. There have been shootings at some schools but it is always gang related and maybe one or two people being shot. We do not have kids going to school on a killing spree. I can't get my head around what is happening in American schools or America itself that a kid would do something like that?
     
    trashed likes this.
  8. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Super Moderator

    Gun control proposals

    I thought I’d put together a couple of lists that MeAgain and I have presented in the past (I hope MeAgain doesn’t mind) –

    From MeAgain

    Educate people about what the new legislation is about and would entail (Not taking away all guns, the goal is to reduce harm by limiting easy access to the criminal and irresponsible)

    Reinforcing, enhancing, and mandating back ground checks.

    Immediate destruction of any weapon, ammunition, etc. used or acquired illegally.

    Limiting the amount of legal ammunition that can be bought and retained.

    Buyback programs - to get rid of or lower the number of midnight specials, assault weapons, etc.

    All gun owners would need to pass a test of competence and responsibility to get a gun licence (part of which would be to pass a psychological evaluation)

    A gun owner would need an up to date licence and insurance to carry on owning a gun.

    Mandatory records of all sells or transfers of all firearms and immediate destruction of any that are discovered to be not recorded.

    From Balbus

    Any gun kept at home or place of work (including businesses that involve guns) would have to be held in a secure manner (eg safe or other secure locking system). People that didn’t have an approved system would not be allowed to own a gun

    If a person looses or has their gun stolen, and it is shown that they did not show due diligence in securing their weapon they would be subject to a heavy fine and/or banned from owning a gun.

    Any guns would have to be presented for inspection 6 months after purchase then again one year after purchase and then every five years after that. Not presenting the gun would mean losing the owner’s gun license and being banning from owning a gun. If the gun has been lost or stolen and that has not been reported that would result in heavy fine and/or custodial sentence.

    *

    These would be national laws the same through all the states and a department would be set up to monitor them and make sure they are been enforced equally throughout the country.
     
    Eric!, Asmodean, skip and 1 other person like this.
  9. diesel#

    diesel# Member

    Laws prevent people with something to lose from doing things like this. No law will stop evil.

    Just like murder and bringing a firearm to school. Both are against the law, yet both laws were broken. It would be no different with a firearm law.

    You should probably make a better argument about how you believe every 19 year old isn’t mature enough to own a semiautomatic rifle, but yet we let 18 yr olds serve in our military and have access to far deadlier weapons.
     
    noodist_jen likes this.
  10. lion1978

    lion1978 Member

    Instead of gun control proposals how about some human control proposals, after all it's the humans who does the shooting and the killing
     
    noodist_jen and mcme like this.
  11. Flashdown

    Flashdown Member

    90% of these points are in our gun laws
     
    Eric! likes this.
  12. Never had a school shooting in Australia

    One university shooting 16 years ago


    Just saying
     
  13. etherea

    etherea mother of the idiot children

    Balbus, the list of proposals that you and MA put together would go a long way to make your citizens a lot safer but I do see a problem unfortunately. Who would oversee and finance the whole thing? Government representatives talk the talk but when it comes down to it - the financial aspect is always the first consideration. Budget is everything!
     
  14. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Super Moderator

    Self control?

    Aren’t people law abiding right up to the point when they lose ‘self control’?

    Oh that old gem – arm all the children over five – arm the teachers, the catering staff and the janitor.

    Look why not just try and keep guns out of the hands of the criminal and irresponsible?

    It seems to me that if the problem is ease of access to guns the answer is not having even more guns available along with shoot outs in the middle of a school.

    That's not being called
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
  15. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Super Moderator

    Flashdown

    What country?
     
  16. Meliai

    Meliai Evenstar

    *18th. Not 8.

    America has the highest gun ownership in the first world and the highest rate of gun deaths. By far.

    I'm so sick of these fools brainwashed by the NRA who come out of the woodwork everytime this happens to defend America's gun culture.

    Gun control works. America is the only country dealing with this problem. Because gun control is fucking working in other countries.

    End of story .Time to stop debating with fools who have the blood of children on their hands in my opinion, and to move forward with some action .
     
  17. Flashdown

    Flashdown Member

    South - Africa
     
  18. lion1978

    lion1978 Member

    You'd be right if you weren't wrong, In europe lot's of criminals has guns and uses them, their main problem though is that they don't know how to aim and therefore end up shooting civilians when they meant to shoot each other.

    Gun control isn't going to stop a raving lunatic from commiting their crimes, if they have a bit of patience they can do it with a gun if they don't they do it with kitchen knifes and axes.
     

  19. So, your argument is, homicide rates in europe are lower because european criminals are bad shots?
     
  20. lion1978

    lion1978 Member

    No there is also a sigificantly less nuts in europe, and guns are harder to come by than in america, but far from impossible.
    but criminals in europe are still bad shots also.
     
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