Adam and 4000 BC

(Hebrews 4:12) For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints and [their] marrow, and [is] able to discern thoughts and intentions of [the] heart.

(2 Timothy 3:16-17) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.

I happen to believe these two scriptures.

Now, if you believe that means I worship the Bible so be it.

I happen to worship God and know that what God says has a power beyond what the words of man has and thus God's words are, as the Bible itself says, alive.

Yes, what a book is made of is paper and glue and cardboard and ink and You can burn it, spit on it or shred it but what is written on that paper with that ink is God's inspired word for mankind and can never be destroyed ,is eternal and exerts great power.

 

Please note for me, one place where I have ever dismissed astronomy?

You seem to get into these, for want of a better term, rants and start accusing me of all sorts of things I never said or even inferred. Then I have to pull apart what you've said, to show that half of what you say doesn't even apply to what I'm saying.

Personally I think Bertrand Russell's contention, applies more to you than to me. The only "assumption" I've made is that God's word is true, as for you it seems you've made the "assumption" that man's word is true.

Making the assumption that man's word is true has not always worked out well.

 

I too believe those scriptures to be true. As you know, the vast majority of people in biblical times could not read - nor was there a written account of the gospels and the teachings of Jesus. They had nothing to do with a written scripture, be they in a book or on a scroll. The scripture they speak of are the teachings of the apostles, Jesus and the Torah and the teaching of the prophets. Not any sort of bound document.

If all Bibles were destroyed, would the Word of God be destroyed? Of course not. The Bible is a way to know what Jesus said - but this wonderful book is not alive - it is a tool.

We will probably never agree nor even understand each others views on this matter - But we both love Jesus and his Word. Sometimes brothers argue and fight.

 

So does that mean you do accept astronomy? I thought you might not, since it involves methodological assumptions about age and distance not unlike those made by geologists, and gives a picture of the universe which some fundamentalists find to be unacceptable. Why don't you dismiss astronomy? Did you take a lot of astronomy in college? Or did you take a lot of geology in college? Both? Neither?

As for the Bertrand Russell quote, you made clear in a previous quotation that you think the dating methodology used by geologists, paleontologists, and archaeologists is completely invalid, which is why I think the Flat Earth Society and Russell's remark about clinging to Ptolemy are apt analogies. Your views are quite extreme. I confess: I admit that many of the words of man, including the Bible, are true. Human intellect, limited though it admittedly is, has, by the grace of God, given us some remarkable achievements, not the least of which is the Bible. Making assumptions that the "word of God" can be taken literally hasn't always worked out either. Archaeologists who have tried seem to be coming up empty lately. Your assumption that you understand the word of God is the kind that makes as ass of u and me.

 

Oh man that made me laugh in implicit understanding. Eloquently describes an occurrence that's far too frequent around here (and almost everywhere frighteningly).

 

Nice post. I'm not sure what I think about this or even the significance of "the answer" to be honest.

 

May I ask, significance to what, and what does "this" mean in, "I'm not sure what to think about this"

 

this issue, i.e. is the Bible "alive."

in regards to the significance of understanding truth

if it wasn't clear, i put "the answer" in quotations like that to show that i was implying that there is in fact a real answer to the question without being sure that there really is

now that i think about it - there surely is an answer to it but how we explain it to ourselves might vary noticeably

for instance, ddoright seems to accept that the Bible is the word of God and that the Holy Spirit can use it to teach and inspire. If I had the same conviction, and I do, I would answer 'yes' to the question "is the Bible alive?"

but ddoright, sharing the same actual conviction as me, answers 'no' to the same question

 

Actually God's people have always been literate, God has always wanted his people to be educated. Even Jesus when confronted by Satan didn't say; it is said but that it is written. (Matthew 4:3-10)

Then why is written that is is alive?
[/QUOTE]We will probably never agree nor even understand each others views on this matter - But we both love Jesus and his Word. Sometimes brothers argue and fight.[/QUOTE] Disagree perhaps, argue and fight, never may that be the case.

 

You seem to be forgetting that both the flat earth and the Ptolemeic theory were both human "scientific" theories and neither is supported by the Bible.

About half of what I was taught about science in my youth is now considered bogus. Does that mean that those who came up with it weren't "scholars who painstakingly gather and examine ... evidence"? I'm sure that they were but that doesn't make them any less wrong.

You treat human thoughts and theories like they are your God but they are not a god. I enjoy human thought, science and theories but I take them for what they are and do not put them on an alter and worship them.

I'm sorry to say it but you sound like a young school boy who accepts what ever he is taught because it wouldn't taught if it wasn't true. Do you even try to keep up with current scientific thought? You talk about astronomy like its all been figured out and I disagree with it. Let me ask you, is there such a thing as dark energy? Is the universe expanding evenly or unevenly? And that is for a science that is reasonably stable.

How about physics? Does the future affect the past? Ever hear of Albrecht's clock ambiguity? Since you believe in evolution, you'll probably like this one, there is a new theory that the laws of physics have been evolving since the beginning of time and that the laws that we have now are not the laws that we once had in the beginning.

And you talk about my extreme views.

 

OlderWaterBrother - I came across this reference concerning literacy during the time of Jesus. Take it for what it is worth.
https://www.evidenceforchristianity.org/index.php?option=com_custom_content&task=view&id=4172

 

Thank you, it was an interesting read.

Jesus, who was the son of a lowly carpenter, could read. (Luke 4:16) Also this scripture would seem to indicate that it was the custom for others, who where not rabbis, to stand and read the scriptures on the sabbath day.

Both Peter and John were considered "unlettered and ordinary" and yet both wrote books of the Bible. (Acts 4:13)

Also those in Be·roe′a were commended for carefully examining the Scriptures daily, something that would be difficult to do if they could not read. (Acts 17:10-11)

Personally, I would go by these scriptures.

 

The short answer is that nobody knows the extent of literacy in ancient Palestine. The archaeological findings (if we want to accept that science as at all reliable) indicate that literacy and the biblical accounts were largely oral before the eighth century B.C., that literacy grew in the more developed northern kingdom of Israel under the Omri dynasty in the ninth century, and that it expanded rapidly in Judah during the eighth and seventh centuries B.C. after the great influx of population to the south following the Assyrian destruction of the north. "For the first time the authority of written texts, rather than recited ballads, had an enormous effect." (Finkelstein and Silberman, The Bible Unearthed, 2001, p. 248)

 

Do not put YOUR trust in nobles, Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs. His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; In that day his thoughts do perish. (Psalm 146:3-4)

 

Why is "your" in caps. Is that an official translation?

 

I've never put my trust in nobles. In fact, I don't think I ever knew any.

 

SECOND PERSON PLURALS: Where “YOU” is printed in small capital letters, it shows that the pronoun is plural. Also, where the plural number of a verb is not apparent, its plurality is indicated by printing it in small capital letters. If the context already clearly indicates plurality, then no special capitalization is used.

 

Perhaps not but you do seem to put a lot of trust in the son of earthling man.

 

Is that what you believe?

 

Adam is the prototypical everyman.