as above its an opinion for anyone to say about abortion but its the system that is at fault if we look to a change in this world then we look to a safer world for a woman who needs rights. please dont assume that hippies are stupid or anyone else that questions the currant system look past the arguement see the reality people are shat on by capitalists ideas about what right for the human being yet no one has achived the equality needed for all... including guidelines for abortions ie the timing and mentle hard ship that may come after wards...... and not point fingers at those in need. another point if we chagne the system the medical use of the human race we may change peoples attitudes towards the human needs our living standards should be equal.. as our rights. within our race sex etc as for religion well ,how much blood will spill for the sake of human enlightenment now. if the man in a dog colar preachers to death while suggesting abortion is wrong then they assert to dictate our choices....our paths you see this is just one arguement among many to do with the female ie pay. a woman earns less than a man as so on it never ends we need the world to change no world for profit but a world that looks after its people all the people. and to me you should all be doing this learning about where the oppression came from // thank you from saff always answering.
Adoption is always an option and I make the same exceptions that most people do 1) rape 2) incest 3) mother's life in danger and you're saying I should keep my opinion to myself, which is annoying as this is a free speech website. I know people from poor families, people with difficult upbringings etc, they turned out just fine. You have no right to decide whether or not someone should live or die. Yet you could live with yourself after killing the child...
And a newborn infant is??? What is wrong with you people? How about a senile old person? Kill them too? You're a "cluster of cells" too btw.
yes, and you'll see the so-called liberals and hippies fighting only for "choice" (the choice to murder their own offspring) not for education, contraception, responsible behavior. You never hear them speak of abortion as the horrid procedure it is. All you hear from them is "it's my body!", "feminist rights!" even though many women are horrified and completely against abortion. Yet they try to (like many other things) use it as a woman vs. man issue and try to make women seem like victims. It's pathetic and proof to me that they don't care about reducing abortions, they're just promoting the liberal mindset indoctrinated in them
I love these hypocritical exceptions that you zealots make to sound less extreme. If you actually believe that abortion is murder, why would it be OK in cases of rape or incest? You're not even interested in the life of the fetus, you're just interested in punishing people for having sex. If this was not true, you wouldn't make these exceptions. Have you figured out why you believe that complex arrangements of carbon atoms are morally superior to complex arrangements of silicon atoms?
I never said it was OK, just an exception. Crimes were commited. The mother's life, that's obvious, why trade one life for another, the baby would be less likely to survive anyways. I don't care if people have sex, I'm not bound by religious viewpoints. I'm not married, not prepared for a child, but if I got pregnant tomorrow I would not end the child's life. You're the only person I know of who has trouble assigning the appropriate value to people and computers....You cannot "kill" artificially intelligent objects as they are not alive, so go ahead and beat your computer to a pulp, I won't stop you, ...you don't have the heart do you?...
so its not a right for his body either then im afraid you lack understanding on the grounds of this system...which is to assert our right to earn and misunderstand so wkae up to your words they reflect a capitalists upbringing therefor you show no knowledge of what rights female and male dont have within this world thank you \for interested read but life is for living what ever chioces sre needed. from saff
im sorry...where did i say you had to keep your opinions to yourself??? of course you can put forward you opinions...what you have to understand is that not everybody here is gonna agree with you
You didn't answer my question. In the cases of rape and incest, why does it matter that a crime was committed? If you think that abortion is murder, why is it OK to commit murder in the case of rape or incest? The fetus didn't commit those crimes. Straw man. I place a very high value on the lives of people ("people" meaning any entity that is self-aware, not any entity with human DNA). Furthermore, I place a very low value on the "life" of a modern-day computer (which is only about as intelligent as a fish). I'm the only person you know who feels this way? I bet that if a machine with human intelligence emerged from a laboratory tomorrow, I would not be alone in defending its rights. I'd bet a fairly large minority of people would agree with me. I may be one of a small number of people actively putting forth these kinds of philosophical questions TODAY, just because it isn't obvious yet. Artificial intelligence will likely rival human intelligence by the mid-2020s, at which time I think you'll see a much greater interest in the civil rights of artificial intelligence. Equivocation...AGAIN. Whether or not you're "killing" an artificially intelligent object, or whether or not it's "alive" is IRRELEVANT if you're ending it's self-awareness. I don't have a problem with destroying a present-day computer for the same reason that I don't have a problem with killing a fish. Neither are self-aware, nor possess any great degree of rational thought processes. Stop changing the subject. Why are complex arrangements of carbon atoms morally superior to complex arrangements of silicon atoms? If abortion is murder, why is it OK in the cases of rape or incest?
I am prolife, antiwar, anti death penalty, anti animal testing you name it. I think life is special - an not for religious reasons either. When people find out im pro life they are usually surprised. I am only pro-choice in cases where birth m,ight hurt the mother, the baby has something wrong with it, or rape / incest cases. Hope this helps you to "get it" Amanda Peace love and laughter
It's not murder in the same way killing someone in self defense is not murder. But it is killing a human. It isn't OK, as I've stated (!) but it is understandable and I make that exception. I would hope they would choose otherwise, but it is more forgivable just as killing another human in your self defense, or the defense of someone else is permissible. There are degrees of wrongness. I think that if someone stole some food because they were starving, it would be OK. It's still stealing, it's still "wrong", but it is forgivable. Self-awareness is your standard for the right to life, not mine. I think it's an absurd criteria. No, I don't think so. Yep you're the only one I know. Again, I don't place importance on self-awareness, only biological life. A fetus is a human at a certain age, your belief is that only people of certain ages should be allowed rights, how insane is that? Or that a fetus is somehow not human, the Law of Biogenesis shows that it most definitely is. The Nazi phrase "a life unworthy to be lived" must be your creed.
That is an absurd comparison. A fetus that was conceived through rape isn't actively trying to kill the mother. In fact, if one accepts your belief that a fetus is just as worthy of life as an adult person, it is NO different than any other fetus regardless of how it was conceived. Taking your belief that a fetus is human to its logical conclusion, it would be OK for a rape victim to start open-firing in a random crowd of people who had nothing to do with the crime. I'm hard-pressed to find a distinction between that and a rape victim aborting the fetus, according to your worldview. Who is the rape victim defending by aborting the fetus (aren't you a big proponent of adoption)? How exactly does a fetus conceived by rape have less of a right to life than a fetus conceived normally? If abortion is murder, why is it "more forgivable" to commit murder under these circumstances? The difference is that you think abortion is equivalent to cold-blooded murder, not equivalent to stealing a loaf of bread to feed a starving family. My criteria is morally consistent. Yours is not. Being composed primarily of atoms with six protons, rather than fourteen protons or any other number, is a much more absurd criteria. It makes sense to me. Would you want a five-year-old driving an automobile, or a ten-year-old choosing sexual partners? What's wrong with limiting rights to people of certain ages? Equivocation again. Whether it's "human" in the biological sense is IRRELEVANT, as it isn't self-aware. Nope, but it must be yours, as it's morally acceptable for rape or incest victims to kill anyone they want in your worldview.
sooooo...is Green Thump Huck Finn's sockpuppet? Did we establish that these two are infact seperate individuals yet? excuse me now...I'm off to kill some feti and comatose white women.
Idiot, it's not a direct comparison...Sometimes murder is justified, in self-defense, killing someone is still murder, but it's not as bad as cold-blooded murder. The fetus has exactly the same rights, I already said that, I already said it's wrong to abort it, I only said I would forgive the woman who made that difficult choice! Comprenez vous? I believe we were talking about the right to life! Don't bring in this other irrelevant bullshit, I wasn't talking about that and you know it. That's your fucked-up opinion. I'm done with you.
Kandahar, If this isn't murder, would you at least agree that it is an extreme form of animal cruelty?
But you aren't talking about self-defense, because the rape victim's fetus isn't trying to kill the mother. No, I don't comprendez. Why are you willing to forgive a rape victim who aborts a fetus (or commits murder, according to you) because she doesn't want to have the baby, but you aren't willing to forgive a scared teenager who aborts a fetus (or commits murder, according to you) for exactly the same reason? The only difference, as far as I can see, is that one chose to have sex and the other didn't. In other words, you're just interested in punishing people for having sex. You're just a self-righteous moron, and don't have any semblance of logic behind your reasoning. The point is that there are lots of rights that are restricted to people of certain ages. It isn't unreasonable to posit that the right to life (perhaps setting birth as the legal cutoff) should have similar restrictions. Better luck next time. Just continue believing, for no particular reason, that arrangements of carbon atoms are inherently superior to arrangements of any other kind of atoms, and you can't go wrong!
Ah, what abortion debate would be complete without some pictures of dead fetuses. Trick question. What makes it more "extreme" than any other form of animal cruelty? I can tell you aren't going to like this, but I generally don't think animal cruelty laws should be prosecuted if the "cruelty" will somehow improve life for humans. Abortion obviously DOES improve the life of the mother (or she at least thinks it will), or she wouldn't have had it in the first place. But let's stick with the subject at hand. We can discuss animal cruelty laws in another thread.
