** For fuck sake This is not a simple question of black and white, yes or no? We have to ask what it is about our society that brings about the desire for abortion? And why is it that some countries have higher abortion rates than others? I can actually understand the religiously motivated anti-abortionists wish to stop all abortion, they see the act as a sin committed by sinners, it is evil and it is as simple as that. They don’t really care about the people involved because they see them in the same simplistic terms. Good people and Evil people. What amazes me is some pro-abortionists coming out with similar simplistic crap as well. To me claiming anyone associated with an abortion are evil sinners is stupid but so is claiming that nothing has gone wrong. To me every abortion is a sad and dangerous indictment of the society we live in, it means something is deeply wrong with it, and the illness is not evil as the evangelists would have us believe, it is about us, human beings and the way we are living and treating each other. We need more understanding of what the problems are not opposing camps shouting right and wrong, good and evil at each other.
Ditto, Balbus Why put a stop to abortions by putting more restrictions on people when instead you can put a stop to the conditions that are causing people to seek out abortions....in turn making things better for everyone? Maybe if we lived in a society where both parents don't have to work to support the household, or maybe of we stopped teaching abstinence only to our children, or maybe if we imporoved the lives of the impoverished, or maybe if we improved our foster system... These are just ideas, there could be a million other things that could affect the abortion rates, affect the decisions of those considering abortion. So why should we restrict people rather than help people? If we can improve the conditions that cause people to chose abortion, then we are not only sparing the lives of these potential humans that are currently being aborted, but improving the lives of their parents as well. Win-win for all!
The notion that some humans are not "persons" had led to some of history's greatest horrors (as in Nazi Germany) and has some ghastly implications for our own era: http://nationalreview.com/smithw/smith200503290755.asp See http://www.lifeprinciples.net/ModelTeachText.html.
i believe that it is a womans complete choice in what she wants to do. No one should have the right to tell her what she can and cannot do to her own body. I am also going to agree that the "child" inside is not actually a baby until it is born. Now im no science teacher so dont jump all over me. But i do think that it is still a fetus as long as it is inside the mother. And another thing. If abortions do become illegal, woman will do whatever it takes to have one. If that means having themselves cut open by someone who doesnt even know what theyre doing, and risk dying. They're going to do it. So i think of it as abortions saving more people than killing them.
There is a separate human inside her body, otherwise I wouldn't give a damn what someone does with their body. No kidding it's a fetus, no one said it wasn't. Some were saying that it isn't human, whatever the hell that is supposed to mean. I'm sorry but my niece was born 3 weeks premature, just try and tell me that she was not human when she was born or minutes beforehand, what a stupid argument! Did anyone say anything about making abortions illegal? All I am saying is: -abortion is wrong and immoral and I liken it to murder. -abortion (namely unwanted pregnancies) should be prevented -people should take responsiblity for their actions -a fetus is a human and has rights
You're going to have to point out where I said that.... You are the one who places humans above all other life. I do not. I don't even like most humans. I'll argue for the life of an animal with more fervor than for the life of a human. You are the one using the definition of human (a shaky one at that) as an argument for the right to life. I feel all life has the right to persist. So, naturally, humans are included.
You've implied it in every post you've made in this thread. You've attempted to convince me that because a fetus is "human" in the sense that it has human DNA, it's entitled to some rights. If I misunderstood you somewhere, why are you trying to convince me that it's "human" at all? You're right, I do. Not humans specifically, but I am against the destroying of an entity capable of self-awareness and rational thought. Humans are the only species (that we know of yet) that fits this bill. Artificial intelligence might also be a prime candidate for this in the next few decades. My objections to taking a human life are ENTIRELY based on the fact that humans are self-aware. Your objections seem to be entirely based on the fact that "a fetus has cells that look the same as mine, therefore it must be the same thing." Human entities that exhibit no self-awareness (such as fetuses or comatose vegetables) don't have any right to life, as far as I'm concerned. The sheer idiocy of this statement speaks for itself. I have never done so; I'm interested in protecting the life of any entity that's self-aware and can reason, whether it's human or not. If you develop a machine with intelligence comparable to a human's, I'll be the first one marching for its civil rights. Why? What is it about the arrangement of carbon atoms into a DNA molecule that is morally superior to any other arrangement of carbon atoms? Your inability to answer basic questions leads me to believe that YOU don't even know why you think life in all forms deserves protection. Figure out a consistent moral philosophy before you start arguing for the "right to life" of various entities.
You have argued that a fetus is not human, therefore not deserving of rights. Why? Why? Why? (Your views are far more extreme and whacked than mine are, not to mention shared by fewer people, you should be the one doing some explaining....) The sheer idiocy of this statement speaks for itself. (but is sure to provide many of us with a good laugh) It is living.
ok so you've put your opinion across and many others who are for/against have too...if you dont want to ever have an abortion then fine thats your belief...dont judge other people on what they want to do...its like a christian telling a muslim their religion is wrong...it is simply a matter of choice...we just all have to accept that abortion is part of this world and even though precautions ARE taken...sometimes things go wrong...i will always take recautions and if i become pregnant damn right im going to have an abortion im too young to be having child...and what if the father just up and leaves? im supposed to care for that child everyday of my life even though i cant support it and give it a proper life?...stop trying to be so politically correct and just let people decide to do what is best for them to do
Not human in the sense that is not aware of itself. The fact that it has human DNA is entirely irrelevant. I ask myself why I wouldn't want someone killing me. It's not because I feel that my cells are the best arrangement of atoms in the universe. It's because I'm aware of my own existence and don't particularly find the end of my self-awareness to be desirable. It's very sad that you will fight for an insect's right to exist, but wouldn't defend the right of a hypothetical entity as intelligent as a human if it wasn't made up of living cells. Explain why complex arrangements of carbon atoms are superior to complex arrangements of silicon atoms. Your stance on AI can be likened to the Jim Crow era politicians deciding that someone was "too dark to pass." And yet you're eager to defend any entity with cells resembling yours. You don't even know why you believe that they're entitled to the right to life. So what?
No kidding.... yeah I will....I judge Hilter, Bush (and his administration), Ted Bundy......etc. and anyone else I want to. I'm not a stupid hippy. No, it is nothing like that. Not one bit like that. Are you comparing abortion to religion? I suppose some of you brain dead hippies have preached to yourselves how great abortion is for so long that it is like a messed up religion to you. Disgusting. You are ending a life with abortion, not reading a freakin Bible! I think it is wrong just as I think war is wrong. Do you bitch at antiwar protesters too? Adoption! Stop being so selfish and let the human that was created and is living continue to do so. If, when they are older, and they decide their life is not worth living they can commit suicide. Yeah, only take into account what is best for you....nauseating.
did i say abortion was great??? its fucking not. if people are fucking around without protection and get pregnant then hell yeah they should live with the fact that they have to raise a child and not take the easy way out what I am saying is that if your careful and you become pregnant or you get raped then sometimes having an abortion is the ONLY way out. no because i am an anti war protester....and we are not bitching it is a difference of opinion or, if they become screwed up from a being brought into the world when its parents werent ready, go into their school and shoot loads of people then commit suicide sorry if i dont want to just give my child away...i want a child when i have a husband and start a family im not just going to give one away only to start a family 5-10 years later...you may be able to live with yourself but i cant also i know a lot of people dont see eye to eye on this subject...and my opinion isnt going to change your mind as much as your opinion isnt going to change mine with that said im not looking for an arguement
How can 'hippies' support abortion? By believing that a woman has the freedom to make choices about her own body. How can 'hippies' support murder? Well, I can't speak for everyone, and while I'm not a hippie, I don't define abortion as murder. It's a cluster of cells, not a conscious life, not capable of decisions or functioning on its own yet. Accidents do happen. A girl could be that 1% that gets pregnant on the pill, or that less than 1% who gets pregnant while on birth control AND using a condom. It happens through no fault of either party involved, and I do feel that a woman should be able to choose what happens to her body.
i feel this is a human rights problem....against the poorist part of our world, woman and the working class as awhole,,,,, all who pro life living with wars...mmm who you trying to save religion as i have said in this thread in last reply considers condoms as a sin, not the sex... therefor allowing people to catch sexual illnesses and familes having loads of children maybe some unwanted............ so who are you trying to save while preaching about how bad woman are for abortions {the above is happening in this world..} this is a womans issue yes a man may be involved but its the womans body so her choice{ unless a couple make the choice together.......}. maybe if we lived in a fair world equal for all humans this issue would be seen in a new light as an option for a couple or a single woman.... but as we live in a imperialistic capitalists world for profit... with divide, we will always see people attacked for needing the choice to abort a baby, which of cause is life but after being born ,thats when the real life starts..a child to grow to be an adult... but until the people open thier minds to life,and the system then we shall see the arguement over and over again. its time for our human race to wake up to the fact abortions may be needed, so lets leave woman alone...... our governmenrts should be looking to find safe contraception not introducing things that are not 100 percent safe.....thats the real problem........... our lack of contraception that we can trust then again if no abortions take place as i have said before no testing on the aborted cells for the living .. catch 22.......... i have read so many replies on this thread all very interesting but all closed minded to the worlds problem towards people what more can i say stop arguing about this issue start looking to the system and see how woman are treated and how you are just saying what is expected in a capitalists world....... theres no side to the issue its simple its a choice thank you lovenpeace from saff...
i really dont see a point in argueing about this with you. Neither of us are going to change our point of views. so why don't you take your bitchy attitude else where. and im sorry but i dont see my agruement as stupid. and i dont see yours as either its your opinion and your entitled to it. but just because you dont agree with someone elses opinion, that gives you no right to call it stupid.
