Discussion in 'Politics' started by Mui, May 28, 2004.

  1. Mui

    Mui Senior Member

    *evil laughter* I just started an abortion thread.
    Let the bitching begin.

    A lot of conservatives have this brain malfunction... they look at the surface of issues and cannot see what will happen as an effect of the issue. They also have this thing, where they think if they make something illegal, it'll magically go away (and they than stand on higher moral ground for stopping it).

    The truth is though, if you make something illegal its NOT going to stop it from happening. If you make abortion illegal, abortion will still go on... in back alleys with clotheshangers performed by people who dont know what they are doing.

    Just look at drugs... they are definitely still going on... and prostitution... making something illegal does not stop it from happening, it just creates more victims and prisoners... and than america wonders why it has such a prison problem, when they put regulations on everything and cant wait to lock up a person, and fuck up their mentality.

    On the surface, anyone can look at abortion and go... "Yeah, i dont like killing so uhh... abortion must be illegal"..
    i think the right is using it more as a way to take votes from the left... theyve always had this illusion that they are on higher moral ground than the rest of the world.
  2. backtothelab

    backtothelab Senior Member

    I think there are many cases in which abortion should be not only allowed, but enforced. My cousin is 16, she just had a baby a 3 weeks ago. Last saturday, she ran off with nothing but a change of clothes, diapers, and two cans of formula. The baby (jacob) is probably dead right now, for the most part because my cousin is an idiot. Even if she has the skills that it would take to care for a newborn child, which she does'nt even come close to having, she would'nt have the resources. No formula, no crib, no diapers(assuming she is actually changing them), no stroller. It makes me want to sick up thinking about that poor child. Christ, i've never met the boy and I care about his safety more than she, the mother, does. Yet, people go on every day, trying to ban abortion, telling me to my face it's right for a baby to die starving on the street, but it's wrong to kill one in the womb, which is'nt even fully developed.
    Shit, I should of kicked her square in the stomach 5 months ago, for his sake.
    People need to think about the dumbass having the child, because she's just that: a dumbass. Most of these women are uneducated, don't work, on drugs, have diseases... And you want to bring a child into this? Thats just wrong. Now, an inner-city mother hooked on crack living on the street is a bit different than a suburbanite who shops at the mall and drives around in her mercedes all day, and i think the rules should be altered in the proper way. If this wealty, married, educated woman decides to have an abortion, thats alright, but if she continues, onto a second and third and fourth, the government ought to step in and do what's right. I'm not saying ban abortion, just regulate it to a tasteful level.
  3. I'm pro-choice, for the same reasons as the first poster. But I wholeheartedly disagree with your reasoning, backtothelab.

    What you're basically saying is that poor people should be breeded out and only the rich and educated should be allowed to reproduce. Sounds rather Hitleresque to me. Even if abortions aren't forced, to say that poor children are incapable of becoming anything is to deny Martin Luther King, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, John Lennon, Nelson Mandela, and a host of other people who started out as poor. Poor kids may have a more difficult time in succeeding, but they should at least be given the chance. No one on Earth has the right to judge who should and should not reproduce.
  4. FunkyPhreshMama

    FunkyPhreshMama Visitor

    i am pretty much pro-choice.............

    abortion is not for me but i woldnt stand in the way of another woman who wants or needs to have one.

    and i definately wold not force a 15 year old pregnant girl to have an abortion, if I had been forced to have one when I was 15 I woldnt be a happy mommy today, I wold probly be a gutter junkie somewhere in california.....................
  5. backtothelab

    backtothelab Senior Member

    I'm not saying we should stop the poor from having children, but I am saying that a poor family of 4 who's barely staying alive does'nt need an extra mouth to feed, just like a rich person needs to suck it up and have a kid, instead of avoiding every time with abortion. Forcing people to have abortions is'nt exactly the right answer, but when the mother makes 18,000 a year, has four kids and is hooked on drugs, I don't think a newborn baby is the solution.
  6. WayfaringStranger

    WayfaringStranger Corporate Slave #34

    i think we should kill politicians not babies. but thats just me.
  7. MaxPower

    MaxPower Kicker Of Asses

    What most people don't see is that the abortion issue is not as black and white as the dems and reps are making it out to be. [Christian] Conservatives will tell you how killing an unborn child (even if the "baby" is just a clump of unspecified cells) is wrong, no if's, and's, or but's. Period. A liberal will tell you that you should be able to have an abortion at any time because it is your body, even if it means killing an 8-month old fetus that very well could be born prematurely and survive at the time of the abortion. Both sides are wrong.

    I'm not a doctor, but up to a certain point in development a fetus isn't really a child, it's a mass of cells. And even when the clump takes the shape of a baby, the fetus itself can't feel pain or process emotion on any level. If you want to terminate the pregnancy there, do so by all means. However, once you get past a certain stage (I'm no doctor, but my guess would be 4 months or so), the baby starts to develop it's nervous system, brain, skin, etc. and can feel pain and emotion, even if it's at a basic level. At this time, I think killing something that is at least 50% human, is wrong. By now, you've had your chance to get rid of the child before it was a "child," and since there is no painless, humane way to go about it, it should be illegal.
  8. Megara

    Megara Banned

    I dont understand why people use the argument "abortions will go on with clotheshangers in the back alley." That has to be the worst argument for legalizing something. People are still going to murder, lets make it legal! Bleh. There are much better arguments than that one.
  9. sugrmag

    sugrmag Uber Nerd

    You're exactly right. It's not going to make the problem stop. If people want to do away with abortion, changes have to be made on a different level. Allowing abortion to be legal, IMO, makes it safe. Would you really rather have a 16 yr old girl try to give herself an abortion, or let a doctor do it? Because, she is going to have one.
  10. WayfaringStranger

    WayfaringStranger Corporate Slave #34

  11. MaxPower

    MaxPower Kicker Of Asses

    Your religious beliefs are you own and I respect those, but what is indside a woman's stomach 2 weeks after sex is not a human, it's a mass of unspecified cells. The magical point has been established by doctors and scientists, and I don't see the difference between that and the pope declaring a "pont of humanity."
  12. WayfaringStranger

    WayfaringStranger Corporate Slave #34

    its not unspecified cells, they know exactly what its gonna turn into. there is no chance for it to turn into anything else. the AMA is notorious for basing its decision on pure politics despite science proving otherwise.
  13. jerry420

    jerry420 Doctor of everything Lifetime Supporter

    definatley pro choice and yes, stem sell research is good.
  14. Maverick

    Maverick Banned

    So, uh, murder is outlawed. It still happens. What about it? Should we make murder leagal? Because, you know, it happens anyway...
  15. lovelyweapon

    lovelyweapon Member

    Murder is a crime committed against a fellow born human being, while abortion is not.
  16. Megara

    Megara Banned

    the point he made is this: Saying something should be legal because it will happen anyway is STUPID.
  17. Mui

    Mui Senior Member

    it creates more victims... there is no reason we should start punishing people for having abortions... if we make it illegal... it WILL be performed by people who dont know what they are doing, and it will be an even greater danger for the people who attempt to use it...
  18. LuciferSam

    LuciferSam Member

    Murder and abortion scenarios are not the same. Abortions will occur, but legalizing will make it a safer procedure. By legalizing it, we are at least minimizing the risk. Whereas murder's safety hazards would obviously not be reduced by legalizing it. Simple as that.
  19. Megara

    Megara Banned

    again, there are real arguments to abortion. The little girls with clothes hanger argument isnt the one to use. I am for abortion in most cases, but stating something should be legal because it will be done anyway is foolish and such a shitty argument.
  20. meishka

    meishka Grease Munky

    i've read some of the details and side effects of abortion, if we could find a way to minimize the side effects harmful to the womens uterus, then i say flush that baby down. because a woman, maybe that 16 yr old would have a cgance to have kids at a later time in life.but this world has enough people on it polluting the air.

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