Abortion

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Balbus, Oct 13, 2011.

  1. meridianwest

    meridianwest Senior Member

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    oh so god is no longer a conjecture? please provide 'evidence' so i could correct my misguided understanding of this life.
     
  2. Humperdink

    Humperdink Member

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    This is not really the place to discuss religion, actually it is kind of off topic. The only reason I got into it a bit is because the view I hold on abortion is one that is based largely on my religion. So I will no longer be discussing religion in this thread. You can see my earlier post for the evidence I looked at , but in that list I forgot to mention the mouse. The mouse almost convinced Andy Rooney that there is a creator. I will quote my earlier list here for your convenience.

    At least I know what I believe and why I do. I think something like 75% of people in the US claim they are Christians, yet only 10% of Americans go to church. (This is all from memory, not work for a doctorate). In stats posted earlier, about 50% of people are against abortion. And yet only 10% of people have enough faith in their religion to go to church. So what do the other 40% of people, who don't go to church, base their negative opinion of abortion on?
     
  3. Humperdink

    Humperdink Member

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    Did arguing with Hitler prevent attempted genocide?
     
  4. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    I didn't argue with him, but no it didn't, it was attempted. I don't understand your point. My point is that there is a way do let the dust settle once and for all.
     
  5. zombiewolf

    zombiewolf Senior Member

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    Even as a staunch Atheist I am against abortion in principle, but in practice I think it's better to try and counsel on a case by case basis than have blanket laws banning this and that.

    ZW
     
  6. PeaceInTime

    PeaceInTime Member

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    There is no such thing as a perfect world Humperdink.
    For there to be a world of perfection, one must give up the power of free will.
    As (If I'm to understand correctly), a perfect world would constitute of people being able to do whatever they please, no? That would be my idea anyway..
    With this, however, comes suffering or death. No matter what you may believe Humperdink, many many people have secrets they would never tell anyone else, desires that remain hidden to the public.

    You may argue, that in a perfect world there would be no people like this? This would imply that Human's as a race are perfect. We are not. We are flawed, in so so many ways, and why is this?
    Emotion.
    Emotions bring about idea's and thoughts that would not normally be created. Depending on the situation, drastic events may take place. You may get angry, and when you get angry you do not think clearly (proven fact). Your thoughts are raced, and one does not think of consequence when undergoing extremem bouts of anger.
    'People would not get angry in a perfect world' you may say. But again, I remind you, that without the emotion of anger, you are removing a part of humanity, thus creating a slightly different life.
     
  7. papa wolf

    papa wolf Member

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  8. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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  9. PeaceInTime

    PeaceInTime Member

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    Well then according to whom would this world be perfect?
     
  10. RooRshack

    RooRshack On Sabbatical

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    I'm talking to you.

    Either I'm a voice in your head, or I'm someone out here on the interwebs. A scientist can look at me and conclude that I exist. So I may not be able to, but others can. And maybe I'm in a coma, and they're just people in my imagination. Or maybe I don't exist at all, and they're just people in something else's imagination. But at least I walk and talk and do things in this complex imagination, which is more than god has ever been observed to do. You can acquire a consensus on my existence, while only very few have ever claimed to see or speak with god. You can look at a photo of me, to date, I know of no photos of god.

    So maybe I can't prove my existence, beyond a shadow of a doubt. Or the existence of anything. But within the uncertain world that we inhabit, I think my existence is rather certain, and god's is rather unsubstantiated, by comparison. On a scale of likelihoods, I'm much more real than god.
     
  11. Karen_J

    Karen_J Visitor

    By definition, existence (or life) is whatever it is that we are experiencing now.

    If we didn't exist, this thread would not be dragging on endlessly, with everybody entrenched exactly where they were a week ago.

    :sleeping:
     
  12. RooRshack

    RooRshack On Sabbatical

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    Well there ya go, she done proved my existence. Now prove gods.
     
  13. Humperdink

    Humperdink Member

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    According to that definition, Jesus the son of God and God are very real and exist for many people. I have experienced Jesus communicating with me many times. (Just saying.)

    I am not entrenched in my position. If someone can prove to me that a fertilized egg inside a mother does not have a chance to grow up to become a well cared for, productive member of society then I will say abortion is okay. My life is run by simple logic.
     
  14. SapphireNeptune

    SapphireNeptune Member

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    This has already been said, most 'pregnancies' end with a fertilized eggs/embryos not taking to the uterine lining and being expelled with the woman never knowing she was pregnant, combine this with the amount of pregnancies that end in miscarriage, all of us right now are actually the statistical minority in the fact we made it out of the womb alive even without abortion being in the picture. And once said child is born, obviously there's nothing that has more hope in the world than a child of either poor parents or parents who didn't want a child to begin with. Statistically this is the person most likely to live in poverty themselves as adults as well as being most vulnerable to a host of problems, infectious disease, poor nutrition during developmental years, mental and behavior problems, ect.

    And then if they have kids when they're not ready, welp here goes the never ending cycle again!
     
  15. Humperdink

    Humperdink Member

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    I have stood in line behind people who buy $20 worth of lottery tickets for the Michigan Powerball, and they actually believe they have a chance to win. The chance of winning is about one in a billion, and yet occasionally someone wins. There are now 7 billion people on earth, and about 90% I would guess have all their needs met. I guess it just shows the nature of our society when we risk $20 thinking we have a chance to win some money to spend on ourselves, but we won't chance the life of a child; we destroy it for fear it might not live under the best circumstances. I wonder if babies who actually get birthed feel like they won the lottery?

    There is enough food on the earth being produced for everyone to have a little over 2000 calories per day, and yet every year 18,500 children starve to death. It's not a matter of supply, it's a matter of logistics.

    (Stats above were told to me by a coworker who was helping a church pack 1.2 million meals for 3rd world children.)
     
  16. Heat

    Heat Smile, it's contagious! :) Lifetime Supporter

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    In an ideal world every child conceived would be wanted, loved and cared for. That is not a reality. In an ideal world both parties involved would care and wish to be parents, that is also not a reality.

    Abortion should be the choice of the woman and is between her and her conscience. If at all possible I do believe that it should be a joint decision between both parties but in the case of non-agreement on the choice, it should revert to the woman.

    The reality is that it is usually the woman who then must raise that child.

    I have know three women who had abortions and not one of those took that decision lightly. They made a choice at the time that was the right one for them. They live with that.
     
  17. Karen_J

    Karen_J Visitor

    Yesterday, the proposal was defeated in a voter referendum.
     
  18. MellowDonna

    MellowDonna Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    I vowed not to post in this thread, but here I go.

    I can (and have) argued both sides of the abortion debate. I'm thankful I've never been in the situation of having an undesired pregnancy. My husband and I have a wonderful daughter, but she's a child we planned together. We love her more than anything. Because she was planned, abortion was never a thought.

    I can't speak for all, but I've often sensed those who are most outspoken against abortion have never been in an undesired pregnancy nor have they known others in undesired pregnancies. I know that's not 100% true, but hear me out.

    I knew a number of girls who got pregnant, mostly in college. It's true that abstinence would have prevented it, but let's face it, when your hormones are raging and you're away from home, many if not all will test the waters.

    It’s easier for a guy to say abortion is wrong. He’s not the one carrying the baby, whose body is going to be stretched, who’s going to go through morning sickness, and will be expected to care for and nurse the newborn. Fuck her and leave her. That may not be true in all cases, but there are a lot of girls whose boyfriend denied responsibility once the dipstick showed positive. Overnight she goes from being his object of devotion to being branded a slut who was screwing others behind his back. Sadly, she’s left with a scary situation on her own.

    Some families are supportive, some are not. Being 18, pregnant, without a boyfriend, no family support, your future in jeopardy – that doesn’t paint a very optimistic picture for the future. Yes, girls have abortions. I know several. In all cases, the girl didn’t skip merrily into the clinic knowing she’d come out free of any responsibility. It was a tough decision. It was a decision she wished she wasn’t faced with. It was an emotional struggle.

    After the procedure, all were changed. Some had gotten pregnant with only a few encounters, others had been carefree in their approach and luck caught up with them. In either case, they became more selective, made conscious, informed decisions about birth control, and struggled with the consequences of their decision.

    Yes, I’m here because my mom and dad chose not to have an abortion. I also know they planned me, wanted me, and loved me. Those are the same reasons I had our daughter. I’ll entertain debate from one who’s been through an undesired pregnancy and chose to have the baby. Those who haven’t been there or haven’t seen the ugly side of deserting boyfriends, judgmental families, or unloved children shouldn’t be making the decisions for others.
     
  19. mcsac223

    mcsac223 Member

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    Mellow Donna,

    I respect and agree with your point of view. I know that there are some people who will not abort even if they are going though or went through situations of rape, incest or risk to the woman. I also agree that more men can be against abortion because it is something they never go through. Its not always so cut and dry though and even these situations raise conundrums of certain ppl.

    Personally, i think children are better off if they have two parents who love them and planned for them.
     
  20. Wissam

    Wissam Guest

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    Perhaps some day they will allow post-delivery abortions then nobody with a mother would be safe. I can't imagine living under daily fear of losing my life by the decision of my own mother. It's a good thing that a child in the womb doesn't get to know who it's mother is or that thaeir mother doesn't love them enough to give them a right to live even though they didn't ask for the conception.

    Perhaps there would be a lot less people to contend with on this forum if post-delivery abortion was legalized years ago.

    That being said, I at least show my mum love for having enough love not to abort me in the womb or perhaps one day out of it.
     

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