Discussion in 'Politics' started by Balbus, Oct 13, 2011.

  1. Individual

    Individual Senior Member

    Are we looking at abortion as a free choice or a free service issue?
  2. OlderWaterBrother

    OlderWaterBrother May you drink deeply Lifetime Supporter

    A lot is being said about rape and incest, also health problems for the mother or child.
    I was thinking; okay, what are the facts?

    A 2004 study by the Guttmacher Institute reported that women listed the following amongst their reasons for choosing to have an abortion:

    • 74% Having a baby would dramatically change my life
    • 73% Can’t afford a baby now
    • 48% Don’t want to be a single mother or having relationship problems
    • 38% Have completed my childbearing
    • 32% Not ready for a(another) child
    • 25% Don’t want people to know I had sex or got pregnant
    • 22% Don’t feel mature enough to raise a(another) child
    • 14% Husband or partner wants me to have an abortion
    • 13% Possible problems affecting the health of the fetus
    • 12% Concerns about my health
    • 6% Parents want me to have an abortion
    • 1% Was a victim of rape
    • less than 0.5% Became pregnant as a result of incest
    It seems many give multiple reasons for their abortion but less than 27% of having abortions give the reasons stated above and only 1% rape and less than .5% incest.

    That means that most of the rest seem to be using abortion as a form of birth control.

    Would we even be having this discussion if these "pro-choice" people made their choice of whether to have a child or not, before conception instead of after?

    As for all this discussion about trimesters and how many weeks until it's a person or a life-

    At conception, for all practical purposes, everything that child will be is already there, eye and hair color, how tall he will be and some even say his personality are already in place. So matter what kind of fine line you try to put on it, abortion means that that person's life has ended.
  3. Individual

    Individual Senior Member

    "I really dislike how people preach other's personal choices. If I were to have an abortion, would it affect you personally, in any way? Would the fact that me having a month old fetus being removed scar you?"

    Again, are we looking at abortion as a free choice or a free service issue?
  4. noela

    noela Members

    I really dislike how people preach other's personal choices.

    I don't know about you, but i'm speaking abortion on behalf as free choice, personal choice, and overall choice.

    Free service is another issue, but in my opinion it shouldn't be a problem when I believe over 70% of money that runs through the United States goes into the military.
    I don't know man I just don't understand why when America is running low on money they take away things from public (which technically some may argue as taking away their freedom) because it's easy and selfish and they have the bible as proof that it's the right thing to do.

    Sigh. Money money money.
  5. Individual

    Individual Senior Member

    "I really dislike how people preach other's personal choices."

    No argument with that, everyone should be free to make their own choices, as long as their individual/personal choices present no harm or cost to another or others.
    The military is a primary obligation of the federal government, and only 20.7% of the budget in 2011.
  6. RooRshack

    RooRshack On Sabbatical

    I don't know how much welfare is, but I know if it was 20 percent I would not only be on it, but driving a benz.
  7. drumminmama

    drumminmama Super Moderator Lifetime Supporter

    Here's a thought, keep religion out of medicine and medical decisions as far as regulation goes.

    Against abortion? Don't have one, don't get a woman in the position to need one.

    See, allowing abortion doesn't impact people who are against it.
    Prohibiting it does impact women seeking them.
    scratcho likes this.
  8. jaredfelix

    jaredfelix Namaste ॐ

  9. RooRshack

    RooRshack On Sabbatical

    I just called you annoyingly stupid in your own thread.

    But I do enjoy this.
  10. mchill35

    mchill35 Guest

    Abortion is a serious topic
  11. jaredfelix

    jaredfelix Namaste ॐ

    yes do you agree, or disagree with it?
    i for one think its ok.... all though i think i may have second thoughts...
  12. noyb5349

    noyb5349 Member

    I think that once conception takes place, it's murder. Hope that no one who has had one feels bad.
  13. jul

    jul Member

    I think its a large topic, the best of all is unwanted pregnancies not to happen at all, we live at a modern world, no excuses for "accidents".

    But since it happens, I won't say that i am vertically against it, if the future parents are too young, or poor, or for whatever reason they are incapable of becoming parents, perhaps its better to deal with it, the faster the better.

    But i do not like excuses from grown-ups, with good works and a steady relationship that just do it because they want to cherish more their free lives. There I find it inexcusable, since they did have the option just to be careful about it.

    Like in all cases, prevention is a must...
  14. OlderWaterBrother

    OlderWaterBrother May you drink deeply Lifetime Supporter

    Do you really not understand why there has been so much talk about when a life begins in this thread?

    We are not just talking about what restaurant to go to or what movie to see. Some who have been posting in this thread consider abortion to be murder, not just a "personal choice".

    So asking them if you having an abortion would affect them personally or scar them, is a little like asking them if Gary Ridgway's, Ted Bundy's or John Wayne Gacy's "personal choice" to become serial killers, affected them personally or scarred them. Most would say no, not personally but I would have to say I'm glad they were stopped and were not allowed this "freedom of choice".

    Between them, these serial killers, killed under 200 but it is estimated that in the US, this year alone, that about 300,000 abortions have taken place and world wide about 10,000,000. Have I been personally affected or scarred by these numbers? No but I find them outrageous and sure wouldn't mind if the numbers were drastically reduced, say to a tenth or even eliminated altogether.

    Sure I realize that there are valid reasons for people to carefully consider an abortion, as has been mentioned but when people start using abortion as a method of contraception and have had two or three abortions, then I begin to think where does accepting personal responsibility for your actions come into play? Should a defenseless fetus really have to pay for someone's irresponsible play?

    *(I wish to apologize to those who, after serious consideration, have had abortions for the valid reasons that have been stated in this thread, that were offended by this post. This post was directed more at those who feel that abortion is just a personal choice and is no different than, as I said, choosing what restaurant to go to or what movie to see.)
  15. Black_Books

    Black_Books Member

    People do what people do. My opinions can't stop them so I think it's insulting to tell people what to do with my opinions when they don't really apply to situations I'm not in.

    That said. If I was with a girl I loved, she loved me and it was going to be serious and pregnancy happened. If she had an abortion I would leave her.

    That's all.

  16. Individual

    Individual Senior Member

    I was asking a question related to a post of noela, not agreeing with abortion as a freedom of choice issue. Obviously abortion wouldn't be as major an issue to discuss if people exercised responsibility avoiding unwanted pregnancies.
  17. OlderWaterBrother

    OlderWaterBrother May you drink deeply Lifetime Supporter

    Sorry, I really should have quoted noela's post instead of your quote of it. :(
  18. hotwater

    hotwater Senior Member

  19. Piobaire

    Piobaire Senior Village Idiot

    Abortion should be freely available, without explanation or apology. Contraceptives should be freely available in schools earlier than necessary, along with more-than-adequate sex education; K-12.
    672,000 children are in foster care; anti-abortionists don't give a fuck about them.
    12 million children are hungry; anti-abortionists don't give a fuck about them.
    2.5 million children are homeless; anti-abortionists don't give a fuck about them.
    158,900 children ages two to five are abused, and 1,809 killed; anti-abortionists don't give a fuck about them.
    1,663 children are shot to death every year; 6,294 wounded; anti-abortionists don't give a fuck about them.
    Child & adolescent suicide rates are up 60%; anti-abortionists don't give a fuck about them.
    The U.S. ranks 33 out of 36 developed countries in infant mortality; anti-abortionists don't give a fuck about them.
    The U.S. has the highest maternal mortality rate of any developed country; anti-abortionists don't give a fuck about them.
    The American anti-abortion movement has been consistently anti-education, anti-health care, pro-poverty, pro-gun, pro-death penalty, and pro-war. The hubris and hypocrisy is absolutely astounding. It's never been about some theoretical "right to life" of blastocysts; it's all about reasserting patriarchal dominance and control over women.
    I'm sick and tired of people expounding the ridiculous notion that their ignorance of basic biology or their peculiar brand of Bronze-Age superstition should dictate other people's lives.
    We should try to be better stewards of the children we do have, rather than inflicting additional children upon women who don't want them, and a society that demonstrably doesn't give a fuck about them.
    scratcho likes this.
  20. Flagme15

    Flagme15 Members

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