Abortion

I never said there was no pro-choice propaganda. What I am saying is that pro-choice people are not going to take it serious, would you take it serious if I used a pro-choice website as an example, you did not even believe gardners link which had nothing to do about abortion just because he was arguing against what you and your pro-life friends are saying. if he really wants to prove a point he should not use statistics from a biased source but instead look for a neurtal one, and yes both sides of a debate should do this.

 

If a rape isn't reported, how do we know that it happened so that it can be added to the count of "unreported rapes"?

 

Never mind, I decided not to argue.

Bustramp

 

The ACLU reports 25,000 pregnancies due to sexual assault a year in the US, the figure could be higher due to unreported assault. But in no way does this justify the 1.5 million abortions that occur each year. Since 1973 47 million abortions, Let's get a grip rape doesn't justify this number.

I think abortion should be used in cases of rape and when the mother's life is in danger as verified by a physician. ONLY.


Bustramp

 

That's much better than the way it is now. At least if it worked like that I wouldn't feel the need to do something about it, because then it wouldn't be as bad as it is now, now it's legalized murder.

 

*ahem*

Correct-a-fuckin'-mundo! Here's why!

1. I would not have been concious.
2. I would not have had any sense of my own existence.
3. I would not have had any sense of life or death.
4. I would not have had knowledge of anything.
5. I would not have had desires, dreams, cares, or loved ones.
6. I would not have had any plans to be disrupted.
7. Death does not matter to you if you meet conditions 1-6. Now that I'm 21, I would be pretty pissed if someone came along and wanted to shoot me down. Not only would I not have cared about my own death had my mother decided to abort me, I would not have cared nor had the capacity to care about anything. But now I do.

Get it?

 

You act like abortion is some new evil thing? Women have been preventing pregnancy sence we were hunters/gathers at the very earliest of our existence. There are herbs and teas that make a fetus unable to develope that have been in use for THOUSANDS of years. These herbs cause miscarriage and block development of the fetus & are "natural" methods that have been in use for as long as women have lived.

Is it ONLY medical or surgical abortions that you are agianst? These types of abortions only account for a TINY percent of ALL abortions that have happened during our species existence....some 120,000 (500,00 if you count "archaic" homo-sapiens) years. Medical abortions are only a newer safer more effective method.....to restrict them WILL NOT cause abortion to stop. As long as homo sapiens exist, unwanted pregnancy will exist, and abortion will exist. Legislation will not stop something that is a NATURAL part of our human history. Weither it is "moral" or not is ONLY a matter of personal interpertation. Your oppinion is moot.

 

Furthermore women are not Brooders or incubators for the infertile. Adoption is not always the most loving option. Adoption is a 1.5 BILLION FOR PROFIT industry. The industry ONLY seeks to supply a product(healthy, white, baby) to a consumer (paying adoptive couple).

The best intrest of the child and the childs natural family is never taken into account. It is a supply demand market....and all too often nieve, vonerable, scared young girls are pressured & coerced(through "birth mother" fee's - paid to give their child up, or through lies & broken promises like "open adoption" which is not legally enforceable, guilt, and negative sterotypes and pressures from society) into surrendering their children....so that the adoption industry can continue to supply a commodity in a world where infertility(due to smoking, obesity, unhealthy life style, waiting until later years to have a family) is on the rise & where people want what they want only because they want.

NO ONE IS EVER ENTITLED TO ANOTHER PERSON'S CHILD.


Yes....ADOPTION & ABORTION are apples & oranges. Adoption is a "parenting" choice....Abortion is a medical/gestion choice. OBVIOUSLEY if a woman chooses not to consider to gestate a pregnancy adoption is not an option. A woman must first decide to continue a pregnancy, meet her child, and weigh her options.....BEFORE adoption can even be considered.

I am very anti-adoption. I fully support the life long care of TRULEY ORPHANED children who are in the system. I do not support violating their basic human rights to FULL ownership of their persons, biology, and heritage.

Adoption violates the civil and basic human rights of the child to FULL ownership of himself. Adopted persons are forced to become a person who they are not, to share a name from a heritage to which they do not belong, and "sealed records" often prevent them from EVER knowing or owning their own heritage....a right that every unadopted person has. Adopted persons are "owned" by their adoptive parents. They are not given equal rights under the law. Theier rights are violated.

Adoption not only severes a child from his entire natural family but also from his TRUE self. All children need loving care givers....and I am all for placing TURLEY ORPHANED children in life long homes....but why must we change their identies? Why do adoptive parents need a "as if born to" birth cert. to help a child in need? Why must a adopted persons records be sealed for life, barring the child from any knowledge of their true family or their true name? Why do we expect these children to live a lie, to become someone who they are not because an infertile wants to pretned like this baby(who they "saved" from the horrible mother who "abandoned him after being co-erced & pressured) is their own? This is not fair to the child, not in the best intrest of the child, and fuled ONLY by the wants of the adoption industry.

 

I think maybe we need to step back and look at when a fetus becomes a "child". I guess maybe we can come to a general consensus (maybe I am overstepping my bounds to say we can agree about anything) that fetuses CAN live outside a woman's body after a certain period of time (but still before nine months of gestation). Does that make it a living being? In my opinion nothing is living until it is living outside of my body. I can't kill something that is not alive.

Also maybe we should look to other cultures in other times... take the Netsilik Eskimoes for example. To them even after birth a child didn't have a soul (ie could be killed) unless it had a name or had been claimed for adoption by another family. So let's skip over abortion for a second. Where do you stand on Infanticide? Plenty of cultures still practice it. Would you be willing to tell them they are wrong for trying to keep their population in check?

 

That's the way the majority thinks, and as we should all know, the majority is seldom ever right. Thank You.

 

Yes, see this is why I believe in Fascism because abortion would become a serious crime and anyone caught doing so would eb executed, fear is the best way to MINIMIZE something, obviously evil is always going to exist.

 

Wow, I've actually never met an individual who's anti-adoption...wow...I have no response, you're alone on this.

 

First off, a fetus develops a heartbeat usually within the first 5 weeks of conception. I do believe that's the best factual evidence of life for an organism.

Second, I am strongly against infanticide, in Canada I believe it's 5 years in prison, I think it should be at least our life sentence, which is 25 years. A life is a life.

Third, I keep telling you people that since most of the world wants to keep major wars to a minimum ( wars are how the population was kept in check originally ) we have to expand our space, colonize the moon, venus and mars, we HAVE to do that.

 

It is said that it's a woman's right to choose. And women have rights, no question about that. But what of the rights of the unborn? Are we that selfish?

Rape is a horrible experience for a woman to endure. Though rare, pregnancies happen. To have this forced upon a woman is a terrible experience and it's a mess and sometimes I'm undecided. But it is human life we're talking about and I wonder if we should continue to have terminations in cases of rape. 50% of rape pregnancy victims chose to have the baby. That's a hell of a decision to make, God bless them.

So I'm undecided, It's a sensitive issue, maybe it's better as a choice.


Bustramp

 

Perhaps instead of glossing over my points with such an ignorant comment you could tell me where you have issues?

Yes, you're right, facism is the best way. Freedom is slavery, and all that.

That is really stupid. Modern wars are conducted with a minimum of casualties now anyways. Relative to the whole, of course. Compared to world population, WW2 was not significant in reducing population. It grew. The moon has no atmosphere, venus has an atmosphere of sulphuric acid and the surface is molten lead, and mars has no nutrients. Good job on your science there, you shall one day save us all from overpopulation.

 

Yeah, why don't you do some research on space colonization before telling me I'm wrong. It's not my science, it's the science of individuals who are many times smarter than you. Venus' atmosphere is quite livable at 50km above ground, relatively the same temperature and pressure and Venus is closer to Earth than Mars. Bases with oxygen could be manufactured on the moon. Obviously space colonization is 50-100 years from now, but that's only if we supported the idea, which we all should. We can't stay on our little planet forever you know.

 

This is ridiculous..

 

are you joking?

if you are not then think of how hypocritical your entire argument is.

 

Yea, and you'd be the next to go for criticizing the government.
The pro-life movement needs people like you like it needs the plague.

 

I'm a Fascist, if you actually want to get into this whole thing go to the Fascist forum. I never said killing for a good reason is bad, Abortion is unreasonable murder in most cases. That's why I dissagree with Abortion.