ABORTION....?! yay or nay?!!

I could not kill a baby, no matter the circumstance. Once it is concieved , it is human. I do not care if it was a product of rape, just because a baby is concieved that way it doesnt mean you should kill it, and if I did that, I might as well kill a grown up person who was a product of rape.

 

That's what I was going to say! (I'm a little freaked out that Iron Goth and me agree so completely. )

I think that everyone that I know, as far as I am aware, that has had an abortion, has mourned the loss of even unwanted pregnancies. Most have gotten pregnant again shortly after. Abortion is not a fun, pain free solution. I know people who get emotional talking about it, even 30 years later.

But to make women who are in a desperate situation feel like shit is just wrong. People who do that are out of touch.

Would I, personally, be able to have an abortion? I don't think so. I recently had a dream about this. I dreamed that I got pregnant and I was really upset. I was upset because I didn't see how I could properly take care of another kid, how I could give the 2 kids that I already have all of the care that they need if I have another, because I am on medication that can cause birth defects, because I have epilepsy and I didn't want the exhaustion and sleep deprivation to have a negative impact on my already lousy health. I didn't want to bring another person with epilepsy into the world. (One of my kids has it, and I feel very bad about that because I didn't know that my kids were predisposed.) I was just very upset. But, even in my dream, I decided that I couldn't have an abortion and that I would somehow live with this and have the baby.

A weird side note: In the dream I chose a name for the baby if it were a girl. I didn't tell anyone about it. A few days later we got a cat and the first name that my daughter suggested was the name that I had chosen for the baby in the dream. Odd! We don't know anyone named that...

 

Well, I guess I see what I see what you're saying. I understand your logic. I have been in a controlling, abusive marriage, though. Believe me, sometimes some men do use sex and pregnancy to control the women in their lives. Sometimes some fathers shouldn't necessarily have a say.

Ideally, of course, all dads would be loving and kind and want their kids. Ideally everyone who gets pregnant would be in a safe and nice situation. But I fear that any law that said that a woman could be forced to carry a pregnancy to term if the child's alleged father wanted her to could be abused.

 

I think that if abortion was made illegal, it would only cause poor women (usually the ones in the most desperate situations) to have unsafe abortions. The rest of the women, middle and upper class women, could just "Go sight seeing in Asia" where they could have their abortions, and a nice vacation (medical care is cheaper in Asia, and some people are outsourcing it, getting surgeries they couldn't afford here in the U.S.).

Yes you can disagree with abortion and not be religious, which is why I said "Religious and/or MORAL reasons".

 

It all comes back to - right or wrong - if you make a law it is only going to apply to poor folks

 

If it is made legal, it is up to the individual female and male to make the decision to use it. I realise the male might not always agree but that's the truth for the girls sometimes as well. Sometimes though, the hard decision is made. Why should a baby be born if there is no money for food clothes, schooling. Should they give the child away? That would cause more heartache for the parents and child. I thik sometimes, people only think as far as the decision, not into the future.

 

1. 1. One born of, begotten by, or derived from another; an offspring or a descendant.
   2. Offspring or descendants considered as a group.
2. A result of creative effort; a product.

that's the definition of progeny

begotten

adj : (of offspring) generated by procreation; "naturally begotten child"


and


procreate

1. To beget and conceive (offspring).
2. To produce or create; originate.

need me to define concieve now?


I know what I'm talking about....

 

Ha, whatever....well....nevermind.


Anyway, I just don't want citizens of this country to lose what little "choice" they have left. I don't know about you, but I don't fancy being fucked up the ass by an invasive gov't.

 

Um no that's not what I was talking about. I am NOT christian in any way shape or form and I DO agree with birth control.

I was saying that on a rare occassion birth control [any means of it] can and will FAIL, and the only way you can NOT get pregnant under any circumstances is through abstinence.

You see?

Fuck, I'm all for means of birth control, I was just simply saying to those who think that birth control is everything and that should be a good reason to not have an abortion is that it CAN fail... even the day after pill can fail. It's RARE, but I've heard/seen it happen.

 

Well, right, I was saying in terms assuming that the father was fit. Obviously if you have some dirt on the father, like he abused you, or took drugs, etc. it shouldn't be up to him.

 

I can play devil's advocate on both sides:

Pro-life side: I could look at it as murder and say it is wrong. As if you killed anything over 1 second old, you would be put behind bars, or even executed. So in that theory, what's the difference, right? You could look at it that way... with no lines drawn. Which, MAY be in terms of morals, and common sense, correct. Maybe there should be no lines drawn for abortion. I can completely, and totally see why and where pro-lifers feel this way, and how it is such an issue.

But on both sides are good points....and I find it hard to pick either one, and have a stance. I like to explore the topic, and explore my feelings on it, but honestly... I think it's not entirely safe to say whether I'm pro-life or pro-choice unless I were put in the shoes of a woman who was desperate enough to consider or follow through with an abortion.

Pro-choice side: There are so many factors into this side. On the pro-life side, the simple underlying truth that everyone has is it's murder. Which... I can't say whether it is or not. But, on the pro choice side, there are truths as well. As drumminmama had stated before, it's not always best FOR the mother TO go through with a pregnancy...she brought up very good points too. While reading that it came to mind that, say the mother who conceived is either an alcoholic or drug addict, and even if the baby is born alive, it is born with severe health conditions and/or mental handicaps.
It's the same idea with a person who is a vegetable or in a coma... you have to ask yourself, is it really a life, or is that person just suffering? I don't know about you, but if I were on that end of the spectrum, I would rather not be alive, than to have to suffer the rest of my life, in pain of all sorts.
Obviously, some women are perfectly healthy, perfectly drug-free, and what not, so this idea can't always apply.
Maybe I'm talking out of my ass... but I think it is something to think about.

And then I look at it this way as well... most mothers who go through with a pregnancy because they are against abortion, or for other reasons decide not to have one... that doesn't always mean they want the child. But, be real, it's not COMMON for a mother to give her baby up for adoption... it's just not. For whatever reason, I've never been put in that position, regardless of whether the mother wants the child, sometimes adoption just seems like a horrible idea to women. And I think it's selfish and absurd for people to use that as an excuse for a woman to NOT get an abortion. Anyway my point was leading to this... maybe, a mother who gives her child up for adoption is doing the right thing, and the child will be happier in a home that wants the child there, and the mother will be happier not having that child... but, for those who don't give up their babies are putting misery into their child, and themselves. I've seen some of my friends, who have horrible home lives...who really were an "oops" and have major problems, mentally, because they are STILL unwanted, and not loved. Not to mention, the mothers who didn't want them, seem insane to a degree.

Some people feel that whether or not that child is in mental anguish, they should be given the right to live... but I've been through enough mental instability to know that, if it's severe enough, your will to live gets thrown out the window.

So where DO we draw the line?

My point... You can't. You can't erase the lines that exist, and you can't draw a line for it either. It's too bad abortion, and the desperation to do so exists in the first place, but it does... and I've come to conclude that, even if I can see both sides equally, there should be a choice. Without that choice... I really do believe the land would break out in utter chaos.

 

Exactly. It sickens me to think people are so naive, and heartless to believe that a girl "accepts" rape.

If a woman has the power to fight back for whatever reason [not under the influence of drugs, knows self defense, etc] I'm almost certain she'd use it... I don't think any woman would just be like "Okay, rape me, and haunt me for the rest of my life, sending me through mental and emotional turbulences that I have never experienced before"

No, it doesn't go that way.

So many things can happen that causes a woman to be raped, without being able to get away from it, and it's not her choice. Whether it's the influence of drugs and alcohol, not knowing how to defend herself, or simply not being able to because the man is too powerful, and in a LOT of cases...the woman will freeze up, instead of doing anything, simply because it is a very scary thing.

I can't even begin to understand how someone thinks that it's so easy for a woman to just get out of rape and defend herself.

I think it's GOOD if a woman chooses to learn self defense and the like for situations like that, but that doesn't always mean it's going to work or apply. It's really sad that some people just have no clue...and no compassion.

 

they already had a choice before hand.....


you aren't taking away the choice you are just forcing them to make it earlier....

 

If you say you can only have an abortion if you're raped, watch the number of rapes being reported skyrocket.

 

Hmm good point. I'd hate to think of it that way, because I'd like to think people aren't that dishonest and horrible...but that would be naive of me to think that.

 

RE: I'd hate to think of it that way, because I'd like to think people aren't that dishonest and horrible

*raises eyebrow*

If it's having to raise a kid for eighteen plus years, or lying and sending some guy to jail for a few years and ruining his life......

....mmmmmm............

Decisions......

Decisions.......

Oh yes! The one course of action inconveniences ME, the other someone ELSE.

OK quick, work up some tears here.....

 

well then, that's what the justice system is for isn't it

 

Yeah, to waste people's time.

 

Exactly. Some women would cry rape everytime they need an abortion. And then the flip side- a raped women ends up pregnant. Does the man have to be convicted before she is allowed to abort? By then, she would probably have already given birth!

 

I don't believe in abortion and think unless under severe circumstances (rape, incest) its terrible & they should certainly take the time in which you can have an abortion down. I'm actually doing an assignment on the ethical and legal aspects of abortion and it's really interesting ... xxx