a thread

how come you always miss my point???

they dont have the strength because they dont believe in themselves and all aa or rehab does is give strength to the belief that they are incapable fuck ups!

i have had a very hard life and i have gone to the extreme of the most powerful drugs ever known to humanity and i cleaned up on my own. WHY?, BECAUSE I BELIEVED I COULD.. like i already said, convincing people that they need help or can not do it on their own is a age old fucking scam!

i am guessing that you are the kind of person who likes to feel sorry for yourself so that you don’t have to feel responsible for using certain drugs and alcohol as you run from your problems. if any of you think you have had it harder than me think again and stop feeling sorry for yourself. we are all amazing creatures with amazing capabilities. we can all get through and rise above any thing that life can throw at us. stop feeling sorry for yourself, grow up and take control of your life.

 

i think aa is just like replacing alcohol with something else.

 

Boo hoo 3xi. Your point is not missed at all, its your 'my shit dont stink' method of delivery that bothers the majority of people here. Feel free to give your priceless advice but no one is going to listen to someone who looks down on them.

 

i am trying to have you believe that you can do it just like i did. if i liked looking down on people i would not try to uplift them now would i?

 

dude you should work at AA.

 

wow, your smart arnt ya?

 

no, just silly.

 

The reason alcoholics go to AA is because they DO need help.

Ok, well I have a little news for you. Sometimes people cannot sustain that choice day after day, year after year. When things get really bad, a drinker might up and say "Thats it, im done drinking!" Fast forward a few weeks, things are seeming alright, that drink starts to look really good. The mind has a nice way of forgetting the bad parts and only remember the good parts, especially when it wants something.. this is called rationalization or "justifying" the use.

You know what, I've spent years in/around AA. I have known people that came from dumpsters, people that had no teeth, or had been fucked up beyond all recognition. They had NO life before they came to AA; it was an absolute piece of shit.

AA was the last stop for them. You think your average person goes straight to AA? Hell no, they go to AA after years of humiliation, after years of failing to quit on their own, when they have nowhere else to turn to. As they say "no one rides into AA on high spirits". And it's true.

You should consider yourself lucky then, very lucky. There are people who are not like you; you say you're open minded - can you wrap your head around that concept?

"You Cannot Deny The Experience Of Others" <--- Wisdom


3xi I really don't hate you, but you should listen to other peoples point of view instead of telling them its wrong. It makes you look very arrogant and pigheaded.

 

has nothing to do with luck


that i assure you

 

you didnt just post about how i was wrong did ya???

i have lived your point of view before - it is not that i am not open to your point of view - i understand it completely - i have experienced your point of view(shared your point of view before) and realized it was wrong.

you sure as hell are not open to my point of view.

 

well, it seems to me there's a built in paradox with what you are saying 3xi. When you empower someone by saying that they can do something by themselves (ex. quit alcohol), this is some form of "helping" them and they must either accept your help, or deny your help because they don't need it (because they can figure things out for themselves). In other words, you are offering a form of support much like some support groups would....However I tend to agree with you that most support groups tend to disempower, and I'm skeptical about their claims of success.


I would ask, where do you draw the line with this sort of reasoning? After all you don't claim that you can spontaneously (by simply empowering yourself and willing it into existance) induce a 12 hour lsd session. You buy and take lsd for that purpose, right? And is this not a disempowering action, in the sense that you are admitting that you cannot induce what lsd does as reliably, or as easily, as the chemical itself can? So the line between humbling ourselves to certain "laws" of Nature and disempowering ourselves seems to be a fuzzy one.

 

if I may...I don't think its a matter of 3xi or someone stating something which the person then learns and applies, it's that he's saying something that everyone knows at some point, but more or less forgets, and can be reminded of it by someone else. often it doesn't remind the person and it's of no use to them, but sometimes it does strike a memory nerve, and the person can elicit personal strength. its not the same as in in aa, where people are basically asked to turn control over to a set protocol which frees up one hand while tying down another. people just need reminders.

as for taking lsd, yes it is an act of seeking out divine direction, but it doesn't come from the outside, it comes from inside the person, and allows the inner self to join the known self. its an act of reminding oneself that one has the power on his own. conventional therapy or an outside helper only gives the person an enhanced belief in his dependence on others.

 

You do realize that LSD is a chemical that is ingested right? And that the trip and any other "realizations" achieved would never have happened (arguable) without that chemical?

 

what's so bad about chemicals? everything around us has a chemical basis and is the result of chemical reactions. when you eat something you are ingesting chemicals. how did the word chemical get so demonized?

chemicals obviously have a place in the human diet, and if chemicals are employed for physical health, why not do the same for mental health? We humans are pretty good at convincing ourselves of whatever we want to, using a chemical to remind us to not take ourselves so seriously is helpful . They occur just as naturally as honey the only dfference is honey doesn't have psychedelic effects, isn't illegal, and doesn't have scores of myths around it from users and nonusers alike.

 

i find lsd gives amazing ego boosts, and can make you think your right to the point of 100% certainty. usually your probably right in your own mind and way of thinking, but when its stemmed into a shitty primitive language its much more complex to understand. cause once you do lsd, theres so much unlocked that these words just wont do anymore.

im in a world where i wouldnt even have it to argue. well at now i am.

 

I know curiosity killed the cat, but what did you mean by that?

 

i have no effort to argue. i see no point to argue. you can argue down to a molecule. but its like everything is so uncertain, or i dont beleive in anything anymore, its all awash. its just like theres no point to argue just whatever and be happy and peace. i dont know. i just feel fucked.

theres a deep psychological breakthro or rather understanding that gives me this feeling.

 

Thats cool man go with it; see where it takes you. If your a bit dissatisfied with where you are at the moment, what do you have to lose. It may not be easy, it may, it may not get you anywhere, or it might. Just like you said..its whatever, dont argue - theres no point. go with ittt

 

I don't look at arguing as my opinion vs. yours, but rather we're all pretty much clueless and discussing different sides opens up new persepectives and understanding. I never look at it as who is right, always what is right. to me, a victory is a loss, because it stops the debate. an ongoing informative debate is the only victory to me because that's the nature of the universe: nothing gets settled, everything is constantly moving on.

clearly the ideas of the mind that are instilled via lsd are represented poorly in the vehicle of language; language is so crude and ineffective compared to what a person would ultimately like to express. that doesn't mean language isn't fun though. I know it's a feeble attempt to verbalize lsd related things, but it helps stir up the divinity within by trying to understand it in a way that can be expressed with words. it just gets us thinking is all, and maybe one might achieve a new realization as an indirect result. a major thing I learned from L is that mental exertion alone won't show you absolute truth, but it is fun anyway

 

arguing? debating is not arguing. i love to debate, and get pretty into it sometimes thinking and whatnot. some of mans greatest achievments stemmed from arguments hahaha.