A question. What before bang?

Discussion in 'Science and Technology' started by Razorofoccam, Apr 7, 2007.

  1. Razorofoccam

    Razorofoccam Banned

    You got it.

    Why ask? none of you have the faintest.

    Maybe looking for CONCEPTS [cause there are no facts]

    Occam
     
  2. Razorofoccam

    Razorofoccam Banned

    The secret is ..
    to ask the right questions

    occam
     
  3. dd3stp233

    dd3stp233 -=--=--=-

    There was no bang, as it has been described.
     
  4. Are you talking about the big bang?
     
  5. fat_tony

    fat_tony Member

    Hmmm I couldn't resist this one mostly because its a rare occasion where let symantics come in to philosophy, mostly cos its fun. If we assume the universe as created in the big bang to be a hypersphere, that is a 4D sphere. If time as a dimension came into existence at the big bang, what then does 'before' mean? Its an interesting example of where language can break down when trying to discuss situation language clearly wasn't designed to handle. Either way one theory ive come across is that some kind of interaction in higher dimensional space gave way to our universe. Either way it just pushes back first cause for those who are interested in such things. For some people the question makes no sense, physics has nothing to say about what came before the physical universe, modern physics has been known to have a go but it just pushes back the question. Personally ive never heard anything terrible convincing.
     
  6. sentient

    sentient Senior Member

    But what that really means is that we have to go back to september the 27th 1955 and that the flux capacitor on the delorean will need 21 gigawatts of power that we can get from a lightening bolt which strikes the clock tower
     
  7. Cornball1

    Cornball1 Member

    Looks like something pushed the first domino.
     
  8. Razorofoccam

    Razorofoccam Banned

    Tony

    How could it make no sense in a world dominated by causality?

    Physics has nothing to say because it knows nothing..
    A wise position.
    Science has NO IDEA. What exists/ed before or outside the 'bang'.

    Such is for speculative fiction writers, they are your 'point men.'
    They get laughed at, and you work on their ideas.

    Occam
     
  9. *Andy*

    *Andy* Senior Member

    Okay, I'm probably going to sound like a complete idiot here, but haven't scientists said something about the universe being like a rubber band? Currently, it is stretching out, but it is going to collapse on itself after a few...billion(?) years or so. Maybe once it collapses on itself, it continues moving in the opposite direction, but for a split second, everything that exists in the universe becomes so compact, that when it starts moving out in the other direction, it seems like an explosion...What the hell, I'll just stop now. What I mean to ask is that "is there only one universe that is constantly expanding, then collapsing on itself, then re expanding in the opposite direction?"
     
  10. Zajko

    Zajko Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    My intuitive (not scientific) unerstanding of the Big Bang is as follows:

    If you could trace the timeline of every object back in time. it would be found to originate at the event of the Big Bang. But the universe expands and extends in all directions from the Big Bang, not just one direction. Thus the Big Bang is not a beginning of time so much as it is a center of all time, from which time extends outward in all directions. Therefore, to ask what is before the Big Bang is like asking what is below the center of the Earth or what is south of the South Pole; we understand that these are centerpoints with an outward but no inward (but these would be interesting philosophical questions).

    Stephen Hawking explored the question of whether the Big Bang moment might be in itself just a smooth and undifferentiated locus on the Space-Time continuum, much as the South Pole is not a physical end or barrier but is an undifferentiated location on the Earth's spherical surface. His finding, if I remember correctly, was that this is true only from the point of view of "imaginary" time - that is time times the square root of -1 or time as seen from another dimension. He tells us that in "real" time, that is the point of view of our physical reality, the Big Bang event is a very real singularity, or physically definable point of origin.
     
  11. sentient

    sentient Senior Member

    Occam once again you fail to see the point.

    If time did not exist until the big bang, how can there be any concept of "before" until the big bang occurred, but its not the paradox tony thinks it is either, as language does not break down there at that point. It is merely the fact that until the big bang nothing existed. If time does not exist then there is no possibility of anything existing.
    So really language breaks down at the point where you say, "how long did the big bang not occurr for" or "prior to the big bang how long did that state of affairs last"
     
  12. Razorofoccam

    Razorofoccam Banned

    Sentient

    No.
    YOU fail to see the point.
    WHO said time did not exist before the bang.?
    Not occam

    Our observered universe is merely a facet of a greater reality.

    Like a new housing subdivision. From 'reality' came the triger.
    And our universe [read.. housing subdivision] birthed.
    Now we mere specs of protoplasm say we are the be all and end all.

    Our subdivision 'IS EVERYTHING'
    Just what you'd expect from totally ignorant natives.

    Occam
     
  13. mbworkrelated

    mbworkrelated Banned

    I do not think you are stupid - or maybe i'm as stupid as YOU hehehehehe.

    What you wrote is what i thought occured - also.

    I read it was not a big BANG [ A scientists in joke - i imagine] but like you say ''the universe being like a rubber band? Currently, it is stretching out, but it is going to collapse on itself after a few...billion(?) years or so. ''. I imagine this ''streching'' and ''collapsing'' has occured many many times before. So before the ''Big Bang'' we may have just had a alternate set of laws of physics in operation - when ''our'' universe ''collapses'' another ''Big bang'' when it reaches a finite point - when this occurs another ''new'' universe will start ''streching'' back out - until that ones ''collapses'' .
     
  14. Razorofoccam

    Razorofoccam Banned

    Workrelated

    What alternate set of laws are you speaking of.
    There have been none observed.

    Science Knows NOT what existed before
    Science knows not what will happen.

    Science knows not what is gravity.
    science knows not what is magnetism.
    science knows not what is time.

    Come on my friends, my fellow humans.
    let us stop the ego trip.
    and start thinking.

    Occam
     
  15. Jack_Straw2208

    Jack_Straw2208 Senior Member

    man fuck science its all a bunch of lies, the world is flat!
     
  16. RazorofOccam must be some kind of troll ! How do you justify your comments?
    You just spout random stuff that sounds like it might have some depth
    Now I have blown your cover, would you mind explaining how there could be time before time exists?
     
  17. mbworkrelated

    mbworkrelated Banned

    It does not matter what the alternate laws were.
    We have a very good idea what the laws are in our universe.
    I'm only spouting a theory that the majority of science deems credible.
    Our universe is expanding and will fall back on its self in billions of years time.
    It seems this is a cyclical thing.

    I'm not talking about time - but from our perspective the big bang occured in the past what came before the big bang occured before that and what will occur is yet to come.

    Unless we start leaping around in what we deem the past present and future - i'm confident that if the unviverse is expanding or retracting it is all occuring in my present. It will contract or expand in my future -
     
  18. Razorofoccam

    Razorofoccam Banned

    Occam is a bear of very little brain..
    Why do you have 'no dive' tatooed in your forehead???

    Occam never said there was time before time exits
    [show the post where it is said]
    Learn to read boy. And stop pulling your ego wanger

    Occam
     
  19. Isil

    Isil Member

    Oprah enjoys cookies, and the reading of novelettes on Tuesday mornings.
    Oprah loves space, because she rules it with an iron roll.

    You rule space not
    You know not of the proper baking ingrediants used to make cheesecake.
    You know not of my glorious sentience, ugly heathen.

    Oprah

    o_O
     
  20. Before bang = bong.
     

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