A question to All New Age believers

I agree to a point. But since science (like all knowledge) is relative, it will never give us the absolute. So it's only useful up to a point. Also, what's so great about objective reality, if our entire understanding is subjective? Objective reality is totally foreign to us. I believe that this ultimate truth (call it objective reality if you will) must be understood subjectively. Which means subjectivity comes first.

 

The question is : is there anything outside of our subjectivity?

 

We're getting deep into philosophy now...it's dark, murky waters down below...

 

Lol. Yes, I guess you're right.


Myself I think there is an objective reality 'out there'. But as I said before, I don't think it's defineable.
Perhaps what the Zen masters say about 'seeing directly into the nature of things' is applicable here..

 

It is out there, and it is right here.

The most difficult part, at least in our eyes, is seeing it directly, and not smothered, weighed and divided by thoughts and reasoning.

Not to say thought is bad, or thought is good. It simply is a piece of the whole. Like reflection on the water's surface. It's real, but beneath is the infinite flow, unseparated and moving in harmony. Even if that harmony goes beyond what we would wish it to be.

To the ocean, all is movement.

 

First of all, burn, beautiful beautiful posts. Thank you.

Absolute truth and science...

Those familiar with Heisenburg's uncertainty theory will know that science only goes so far. It cannot penetrate beyond a certain point. It cannot tell you the position and the velocity of an electron at once, since the mere act of observation changes the observed.

How can we say that earth revolving around the sun is absolute truth? There was time when the sun and earth did not exist. So was there no ultimate truth then?

 

By using the adjective ultimate, we have already progressed consierably in this analysis. Ultimate implies many things.

It means that it is eternal or beyond time, since there was nor will be a time when it did not exist.

Being eternal, it is changeless, since change only occurs within the constraints of time.

Also by saying that it is ultimate, we imply that it is all-pervading. There is no place in space that it does not exist. Indeed space exists within this truth. In other words, it is infinite.

Being infinite, it follows that it is indivisible, for there is no place or time where it does not exist. If you were to remove something from this infinity, where would you take it to be away from the truth, which is everywhere?

What in the universe fits all these conditions? It is tempting to say it is energy, but that is not correct. Energy is changeable, it is governed by time. It can be converted to mass, E=mc2.

What is it that is present in everything, indivisible, eternal, unchanging, infinite?

As an analogy, let us consider electricity. Electricity is everywhere in all matter. It is nothing but the movement of electrons, which are present in all matter. It can express through some forms of matter, they are called conductors. It cannot express through other forms of matter, they are called insulators. There are others through which electricity is expressed only under certain conditions or in certain set ways - semiconductors, pyro-electrics, piezo-electrics, etc. Independent of the its ability to express itself through an object, eletricity exists within all matter.

In the same way, existing within everything, all the universes and beyond, is consciousness. In animals, like in the conductors, consciousness can express to a great extent (varying from animal to anuimal, of course). In inert objects it cannot express at all, while in plants, it expresses to a limited degree.

Consciousnesss however, is the same in all. It cannot be divided. When someone is said to be semi-conscious, it is not that consciousness is divided, but that his ability to express that consciousness is reduced. It is indivisible.

Being indivisible we cannot make a distinction between my consciousness and yours. The thoughts are different, the feelings and ideas are different, but consciousness is independent of these things. It is the light that illumines thoughts, not the thoughts themselves. That light is the same in all of us. Thus it is all-pervading.

It cannot be altered or changed. When we speak of a higher level of consciousness, it is also only on the level of thought and our own heightened ability to express the consciousness in us. It is like removing the lampshade, the room gets brighter, although the light given by the bulb is still the same. It is like heating a conductor, at higher temperature, the resistance decreases and more electricity flows, but electricity itself is the same. Thoughts may change, equipment may change, but the consciousness, the electricity that drives it, remains the same.

As a result of its unchanging nature, it can be said to be beyond time or eternal. Consciousness existed even before life itself, but didnt have a means of expression, just as electricity existed before the toaster.

It is infinite. Consciousness never reduces or increases. The moe one can express it, the more it is manifest. However, there is no limit to it. The amound of current passing through an equipment is never limited by current, it is only limited by the ability of the wires to carry current.

Thus, we can safely conclude that ultimate truth is consciousness itself. Being all pervading and eternal, it is existence itself, for it is what gives life and sentience to all things, it is the cause of all existence. If there were no consciousness, where would the concept of existence be?

The most important feature of this ultimate truth, however, is this. It is our own self. How?

We currently identify ourselves with many things. Our body, our mind, our country, our race, our religion, our community, etc. But as we take away each of these, we find that our own self, our identity, our innate I-ness, never goes away. I may convert my religion, live in a different land with different people, but I am still me. I may change my skin color, but I am still me. I may change my mind and opinions, but I am still me. My body is always changing, from childhood to death, but I am the same. The I-ness remains intact. What is that I? Who am I? Remove all labels, all temporary, fleeting identification. All that remains is consciousness. Therefore that infinite, all pervading, eternal, changeless truth, consciousness, is my own self.

When we experience this truth, for it is not a truth of words and books, but of being, then we become one with consciousness, a perfect conductor. We become capable of expressing it in its infinite glory, for we are one with it, with all the universe.

Finally, most importantly, this ultimate truth is happiness itself. It is bliss. For in the knowledge of indivisible oneness, there is nothing external to desire, to have or to lose, there is fullness, completeness, wholeness, pure peace, which brings with it joy, in infinite measure. That joy, that knowledge, that consciousness, that is the Ultimate Truth.

 

The sun going round the earth is obviously only a partial truth about the universe. For as long as the current conditions last, it is pretty much absolute. There are many other examples - gravity etc.
The complete truth, ultimate truth - whatever label you give it is something on another level altogether.
Scintific truth is absolute within the parameters in which it operates.
But even then, there are difficulties. Take Newtons laws - they pertain here on earth - inside a black hole they don't apply. But for all practical purposes, they seem 'absolute'. Same with mathematical truth.

 

Newtons laws are absolute in a relative perspective. Yes. Subjectively, it all makes sense, but you cannot rule out that science has let go of Newton's laws as anything more than relative to the reality we experience. Practical, but nevertheless subjective to the whole. Science does indeed ponder the same question, what is truth? What is the ultimate?

And it has made some strides since Newton, even Einstein. Now we realize Newton's laws cannot be applied to black holes. I am no scientist, but I'd take a guess that they are trying to understand black holes through, perhaps quantum physics.

The point I'm trying to make here is not that science is the answer, but that science too has been, throughout history, attempting to discover a universal truth that can unify all relative truths.

In author and physicist Briane Greene's The Fabric of the Cosmos, he describes the ultimate truth, the ultimate existence, the very essence of existence as the 'bread', in which we view from inside an infinite array of angles to perceive it. There are different ways to measure, understand, 'slice' the bread that are all equal, but none are total. Science is trying to understand the whole.

It's an excellent book, by the way. I recommend it for everyone.

I wonder, though, if scientists, one day, will put down the pen and simply let go of all of this thought and reasoning, not through rejection but through acceptance that infinity cannot be known, but only directly experienced. Quite an act, is it not? After such a long journey; there follows a silence of the mind.

 

Irrelevant, because we'll never know for sure. We can ask others, confer amongst ourselves, but thats science, and will never take us all the way. So who cares? Just figuring out this subjective world is work enough, I say.

 

I'm a Christian, but as a former New Ager, my answer back then would have been:
" I don't know if there's God, but a supernatural 'society' exists. And all of us come from monkeys, bimbo! I hate it when people say that they're more worth than animals, and that theyx think they're better..that they're mre than animals...THOSE STUPID CHRISTIANS! ARROGANT CHRISTIANS!!! I can't stand it that they think we're so wonderful, we're nothing more then something that came from evolution! Why is that so hard to admit? Why don't they get that???"


Yes, I was very nice.

BTW, I judged them, now look what happened!!

 

I was writing things down in my notebook today. This was one of those things:

Objectivity = to the sum of all subjective realities.

There is an infinite number of subjective realities,

Therefore....

Objectivity = infinity

Thus....

The mind is fragmentary, unable to see anything past relative truths....

and THUS....

Objectivity can never be known.

So, I closed the book and wandered off to simply be.