A hippity hopity hee

Dozens? That's it? Hit somewhere in the hundreds and come back. I'm telling you from experience, you abuse them, they'll abuse you back. I've seen it in others as well, it's not just me. As much as we love to think that psychedellics are 100% harmless, they're really not. 80% harmless might be better.

I'm not even saying that you'll have a bad trip. I've never had one, although I've had difficult (sometimes excruciatingly so) moments. I'm saying that if you use medium to high doses for fun on a regular basis, it's going to come back and bite you in the ass later. Don't listen to me if you want. Go try it. I am not saying this shit for my own benefit.

Once again, these are tools, not toys. If you wanna have fun, eat a half eighth of mushrooms or 1-2 hits of acid and run around. I do it once in a while. Just do it sparingly. If you wanna learn something about yourself, eat an eighth or more and get some work done.

 

Actually they're tools and toys. And I've done both many times. I don't plan on doing them hundreds of times as I don't like to rely on drugs too much for either my fun or self-learning.

 

It should be challenging, how else are you and I going to learn from one another unless we challenge each others ideas. If we just totally agreed on everything that would be boring and non-productive.

I'm not trying to invalidate your anything in any way. I just like to poke a stick at you when you state your beliefs and opinions as if they were universal absolutes. I do the same with others in here as well, just ask Desos
Nothing in this universe is an absolute with the exception of mathematics, as far as we know now. Over the years I have read and studied many various things that we discuss in these forums. I have learned that the same ideas are conveyed in most religions and philosophies, just worded differently.
That is why I always strive to use neutral language to discuss these things so as not to turn someone off to the message because of the messenger. That was how Timothy Leary fucked up. He used language and terminology that was not well understood or accepted by his audience so the real message was ignored.

That is one of the biggest hurdles for Christianity, too many people judge the religion and Jesus by what the practitioners of Christianity have done and do.
I have found that most of the people I've discussed it with have never even read the bible or if they do they read it with a lot of preconceptions as to it's meaning and therefore try to squeeze it into those preconceptions they have formed of what the message is rather than taking it at face value in it's own right.
I'm not trying to preach Christianity, but I feel nowadays it is the most misunderstood belief system in history, and therefore lends itself well to this analogy.
You have to be discerning when discussing your beliefs as what language you are using to convey your ideas to others, especially when they are in disagreement with you.
Years ago I had a philosophy teacher who would present an idea or someone's philosophy and over a couple of weeks answer all are challenges and doubts about it until the majority of the class had bought into it totally. Then he would rip it to shreds and point out the holes and failings of that system. It was one of the greatest learning experiences of my life and remains a vital tool in my learning.

As far as shutting down any middle ground to discussion, when you state your Buddhist/Eastern beliefs/views as if they were absolute and "THE TRUTH" that all others must be measured by, thats like jumping into the middle ground with your arms crossed and refusing to budge. Then when I or someone else poses a challenge to that belief, you seem to stick your fingers in your ears and say " lalalalalala I can't hear you!" It sounds as though you are not certain and grounded in those beliefs when you become defensive and resort to just quoting someone else.
If a person truly is grounded in their belief system than opposing ideas are not a threat to be rebuffed, but rather an opportunity for expanding that belief.
I'm always open to learning, and learning from those younger than me happens more than learning from those older. Just have and raise kids and you will know exactly what I mean.
I have always been a very analytical, pragmatic, apply logic to things kind of person. That doesn't mean I don't comprehend, understand and appreciate those ineffable, spiritual experiences as well. It is possible to be both at the same time.
No animosity towards you at all, thats just how I function.:cheers2:

 

I really am getting tired of people anthropomorphising psychedelics.
They are just chemical compounds that produce a certain state of conciousness in the human animal. Nothing more, nothing less.
The content of those experiences and states of conciousness come solely from your own mind and memory's.
"Lucy" isn't going to find you when your ready, it's just a fucking molecule!
Mushrooms aren't going to get pissed, again the active ingredients are just molecules.
When people stop being so damn spooky and mystical about this shit then thats when the real learning can begin.

 

Metaphors, man. Sometimes they're easier than an extremely lengthy explanation.

 

they are simply molecules, but for the most part i think these molecules have power, whether ingested or not. I am not saying just because someone wants acid he is going to find it, but i do think many pscyhedelics come around when they are supposed to and when they will be most useful (though not for everyone). I dont force drug use and rarely search for them (RCs diff story) because they do have a way of appearing when they are suppoesd to and when i can get the most out of them. Does this mean the trip has more to do with my mental and physiological preparation rather than the actual drug makeup?

i see where you are coming PB, from how these are simply just molecules and see how the trip has to do with our experiences and mental makeup, but somehow its beyond that. I am not saying anything that i know as truth but there is something mystical about many of these psychedellics that goes far beyond the fact that they are simply hallucinogens or tryptamines, and the boundary of those susceptible to the mystical experiences extend beyond mystics.

i may be one who over emphasizes the spiritual qualities. Perhaps some people will learn more from these types of drugs when they are not looking at them from the angle which i have been in this post, but it depends on the person...but in spite of their simple molecular structure, many of these drugs carry some sort of energy that attracts them to to some people when they aren't looking (indicating that it is the time). This is not necessarily the case for all drugs and all people. BUT it doesn't mean that people who don't fit into this category don't gain some higher meaning from the drug, just as you metioned.

though our experiences and memor do play a huge role in the trip, i am pretty sure trips go beyond our memories and experiences, beyond space and time. Combined is when the ultimate lesson is learned.

hope this made sense, fairly drunk right now

 

Not having to explain yourself is always easier, this is true. Unfortunately now I'm going to have to ask you to explain to me how using mushrooms purely for fun and enjoyment is inherently pernicious for everyone.

 

I really don't recall doing that....like, ever lol.

 

That is actually something you can never be sure of. Everything we experience is gathered, sorted, quantified, interpreted, and presented to our conscious being by and through our nervous system.
Because of this there is literally no way for you or I to determine where the experiences originate from, internally or externally. Just because it feels a certain way does not mean it is as we perceive and interpret it.
As I have learned more about how our nervous systems function and how psychedelics effect that functioning, I have learned infinitely more from these substances than I ever did when I viewed them more along the same lines that you do. I can relate the fantastic experiences to aspects of myself and my life situations much more clearly with the understanding that ALL the content of a psychedelic experience originates from within.
With how little we know about our own nervous systems and consciousness it is rather presumptuous to ascribe certain psychedelic experiences as having their origin outside of ourselves.
There is always the possibility I am totally wrong and these substances are magical in some way and possess intent and purpose.
But thus far all empirical evidence and personal experience suggests that they are just molecular compounds that produce dramatic effects in humans.

 

It can and has been received that way though. Your comments on the "true" nature of laughter comes to mind for one.
One of the most beneficial things I have gained from psychedelics is the "third person perspective" it gives me and I try to cultivate and maintain that viewpoint as much as possible in my daily normal consciousness. Seeing how others see and hear me, how I come across to others. Not always and not perfect, but I try.
Sometimes the way we think we are expressing ourselves is not the way others are receiving it.

 

You using mushrooms for fun isn't bad for anyone but yourself. The only point I've been trying to make on this (which I've clearly stated many times) is that if you take too many psychedelics too often, which is what goddamn near everyone who takes them for fun does, that it will have consequences, and they will most likely be negative. I am speaking from personal experience, and the experience of people I have witnessed first hand.

 

Well of course taking psychedelics too often usually has certain ill effects, but that doesn't answer the question. How is using psychedelics purely for fun pernicious for everyone who does so? (this would include people who don't use them extremely frequently).

 

Keep doing it then you can tell me.

 

I don't think that I'm going to do enough mushrooms to see any ill effects. How then is using them to have fun pernicious? I know what a reasonable amounts is.

You come in here, state that using mushrooms purely for entertainment purposes is harmful, but using them purely for introspective purposes is not. Then you state that doing mushrooms too frequently can be harmful ( I will agree) and this is supposed to serve as a good argument that using them for entertainment purposes at all is harmful? While maintaining that only using them for introspective purposes is not harmful? This is a poorly constructed argument.

 

And now you see the problem with mushroom abuse. I am a prime example. But I'm done arguing this. Do what you will, your consequences are yours.

 

mushrooms r too expensive to abuse

 

Wrong.