A Defence for A. Hitler

Dude, I'm a HISTORY major and a JOURNALISM minor. My whole career is going to based around finding the actual facts that have been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt. Anyone who majors in History has usually been told by their professors to find the actual, proven facts and not just rely on what the professor says. So, you kind of jumped to a lot of conclusions with your post. Yes, in high school its like that. But I'm in college. I'm not just studying history because its a requirement, I'm studying it because its going to be my career.

 

Yes, for example, it's obvious that the Holocaust happend. That's a fact. However, everyone has a different perspective on why the United States chose not to get involved. One opinion is that FDR was Anti-Semitic.

 

Basically what each of the links you posted are are no more than the same tired rethoric that is taught in public schools in America. Just because something is written someplace does not make it fact. None of your links showed any evidence in support of the holocaust, that I read.

Since you have spoken of museums, read this:

Auschwitz Museum Director
Reveals 'Gas Chamber' Hoax
By P. Samuel Foner
The Spotlight
Volume XIX, Number 2
5-31-4

In a dramatic and unprecedented videotaped interview, Dr. Franciszek Piper, senior curator and director of archives of the Auschwitz State Museum admitted on camera that 'Krema 1,' the alleged 'homicidal gas chamber' shown off to hundreds of thousands of tourists every year at the Auschwitz main camp, was, in fact, fabricated after the war by the Soviet Union -apparently on the direct orders of Josef Stalin.
What Piper said - in effect and on camera - was that the explosive 1988 Leuchter Report was correct: no homicidal gassings took place in the buildings designated as 'homicidal gas chambers' at Auschwitz.
With this admission by none other than the respected head of the Auschwitz State Museum, one of the most sacred 'facts' of history has been destroyed. This 'gas chamber' is the major historical 'fact' on which much of the foreign and domestic policies of all Western nations since WWII are based.
It is the basis for the $100+ billion in foreign aid the United States has poured into the state of Israel since its inception in 1948 - amounting to $16,500 for every man, woman and child in the Jewish state and billions more paid by Germany in 'reparations' - not to mention the constructing of Israel's national telephone, electrical and rail systems...all gifts of the German people. It is the basis for the $10 billion 'loan' (read 'gift') made to Israel for housing its immigrants in the occupied territories...while Americans sleep on the streets and businesses are bankrupted by the thousands. (Note - As of 2004, not a single 'loan' of US tax money made to the state of Israel by Washington has ever been paid back. -ed)
Germany is paying 'reparations' - the the United States is making major contributions - to atone for the 'gassings at Auschwitz' and elsewhere. If the 'homicidal gas chambers' were postwar creations of the Soviets, in which no one was gassed regardless of race, creed, color or country of national origin, then these 'reparations' were unnecessary, and were based on fraud.
The videotape on which Dr. Piper makes his revelations was made in mid-1992 by a young Jewish investigator, David Cole and follows 12 years of intensive investigation by dozens of historians, journalists and scientists who have tried to get to the bottom of what really happened at Auschwitz.
Like most Americans, since his youth, Cole had been instructed in the 'irrefutable fact' that mass homicidal gassings had taken place at Auschwitz. The number of those executed - also declared irrefutable - was 4.1 million.
Then came the Leuchter Report in 1988 which was followed with an official 're-evaluation' of the total deaths at Auschwitz (down to 1.1 million). As a budding historian - and a Jew - Cole was intrigued.
Previous to 1992, anyone who publicly doubted or questioned the official 4.1 millon 'gassing' deaths at Auschwitz was labeled an anti-semite, neo-nazi skinhead at the very least. Quietly, because of revisionist findings, the official figure was lowered to 1.1 million. No mention was made of the missing 3 million.
The Cole videotape interview proves that the people who run the Auschwitz State Museum had made a practice of fabricating 'proofs' of homicidal gassings. Keep in mind that over the years millions of tourists have been told that 'Krema 1' is in its original state, while officials knew that 'original state' is a lie.
The political, religious, fiancial and historical ramifications of this proof of no homicidal gas chambers at Auschwitz cannot be measured. Coupled with the Leuchter Report, the Cole interview with Dr. Piper on videotape proves that what Western governments have taught about the Auschwitz gas chamber since WWII is a lie. It proves that what televangelists such as Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson have been telling their flocks is simply not true.
No one, regardless of race, creed, color or country of national origin was gassed to death in any building so designated at Auschwitz. And without 'homicidal gas chambers' at Auschwitz, where is the reasoning for the special treatment of the state of Israel?
Note - This is excerpted from the orginal, much longer article by P. Samuel Foner.



I have a lot to do tonight, so I really dont have the time to continue. I didn't want you or anyone else to think I had deserted my post, and so needed to reply.

twoseeeyes:

I have never read that book, so it would be hard for me to debate its contents. Hitler was known - and shown - to be a very moral man who did not drink or in any way abuse his body. This is the second time I have heard that he was a meth freak. The first time was on another board in which someone more knowledgable than I about Hitler shot down the claim that he was into drugs. Did Petrova and Watson give any proof of this addiction, or did they just claim it? Myself, I prefer proof. If they gave proof please show it. If there is no proof then my claim that you are a crackhead is just as valid. In other words it is not valid just because it is published or written.

 

Entry: factFunction: nounDefinition: realitySynonyms: actuality, appearance, authenticity, basis, bottom line, brass tacks, case, certainty, certitude, concrete happening, dope, evidence, experience, genuineness, gospel, gospel truth, intelligence, law, matter, naked truth, palpability, permanence, scene, scripture, solidity, stability, substantiality, truth, verity, what's whatConcept: truth


As i said facts are only facts if you experience them, and yes i assume places in the world exsist because most ive choosen to visit where in fact acctually there some where not which confused things beyond comprehension lol

but for things that i will in no way ever (i assume) be possibly allowed to experience there is a level of trust which you develope over the course of your life which allows you to form opinion and belife.

i dont doubt that child birth is painful BUT i do not know it to be so because i have never experienced it.

I dont doubt the haulicaust happened but i have no undoubtable proof it did and neither do you. All you can do is belive it happened and allow others to belive differently.

Which bring me to a quote
"Nothing is certain not even death or taxes" - annonymous

chill evokeing thought, emotions and reaction is in no way wrong or illeagal...

unless you live under a strict comunist regime XD

Peace All I need to go and clense myself.

 

i can't be bothered to read the entire thread but i've started to notice how much we define hitler as evil when the world is not made of black and white. there is no one inherently good so there can be no one inherently bad. we won the war so our view of the other side is biased. had the germans won who knows what attrocities would have been revealed about the allied side.

 

i think the old boy was truly, profoundly ill. so ill that he thought he was sane. and the people around him were so freaked out and full of rage that they said "hey, what a great idea!" mobs, they're creepy.

 

I must point out that what I showed you came from actual RESEARCHERS. People who find facts...not teachers. In fact, in HS we never got to see the pictures or hear the eyewitness accounts. It was considered to be too "graphic" for HS students.

Didn't you notice the PICTURES? Didn't you read the eyewitness accounts? And didn't you read about Holocaust denial? All of that PROVES the facts. I don't believe anything either unless its been proven to be fact beyond the shadow of a doubt...and this has been. I still want to know how you managed to get through school and still be able to deny the fact that the Holocaust happend. I really wish you'd answer that for me because I'm not the only one who is curious.

Also, Herman Van Pels (one of the people who hid with Anne Frank) died in the gas chamber at Auschwitz. Her father, Otto Frank, saw this happen. Also, her friend Sanne Lederman and Sanne's parents died in the gas chambers at Auschwitz.

And what about the fact that you said that there were no gas chambers in Germany when there were...Ravensbruck had them. I proved the facts so now I want you to answer my questions...

1. Why do you continue to deny that the Holocaust happend?
2. Why aren't the pictures, film footage, and eyewitness accounts enough for you?
3. Why did you say there weren't gas chambers in Germany when there were?
4. Why do you act as if its ok that millions of jews and others died of disease and starvation in the camps?
5. When you were in school, how did you manage to pass any of your History courses?
6. If you met my grandparents (Auschwitz survivors) what would you say to them?

 

I know you are trying very hard to convince me that there was a "holocaust", but unfortunately your evidence is lacking. You say that these people were RESEARCHERS who located the needed proof before placing it in the pages of this encyclopedia. I say, if that evidence is out there, and they were able to locate it, then why can't I - why haven't you as a journalist and a researcher? I saw the pictures, I have seen hundreds of such pictures purported to be evidence of mass murder, but I have not seen one picture of an actual gas chamber or person diing in one. Many people did die in the camps in Germany and Poland. But I believe that few of these deaths were the direct result of abuse or murder by the Nazis, and that the majority were from diseases and starvation - the latter brought on as a result of the massive bombings of the allies which prevented food from reaching the camps. Common sense: If the Germans really wanted to exterminate the jews then why didn't they shoot them down in the streets instead of wasting the time, money and manpower needed to round them up and transport them to camps to feed them and house them before "gassing" them in hugh buildings they had to build, then creamate them in hugh ovens big enough to do hundreds - or thousands - at a time? The Germans were efficient. They would not have gone to all that trouble just to murder people. A bullet is cheap; a Nazi efficient.

The word holocaust literally means "death by fire". Prior to the alledged gas chambers it was claimed that jews were thrown into ditches and burned, bones and all, hence the term "holocaust". Then it was claimed that the jews were gassed in large rooms in which carbon monoxide from diesel truck exhaust was used. Thirdly, they claimed that thousands of jews at a time were placed in an air tight building that was flooded up to thier necks and then an electrical switch was thrown and they were electrocuted. Finally, they settled on the myth that Zyclon-B (a pesticide), was used in a gaseous state to do the job. Which is rediculous. If one were to study Zyclon-B they would find that it is an ineffective means of commiting mass genocide, or any murder for that matter.

Your Q's, My A's:
1. Why do you continue to deny that the Holocaust happend?
A. Because I have not found, nor had shown me any undeniable proof.

2. Why aren't the pictures, film footage, and eyewitness accounts enough for you?
A. They are not evidence of a holocaust. They are not pictures, film footage or actual witnessings to the acts that are alledged.

3. Why did you say there weren't gas chambers in Germany when there were?
A. Show me one.

4. Why do you act as if its ok that millions of jews and others died of disease and starvation in the camps?
A. That is not the impression I meant to leave. I do not claim that it was ok for anyone to die of starvation or disease. However, I do accept that it was a war and in war people die. Do you know that for a measly 2 million dollars the Germans were willing to release them?

5. When you were in school, how did you manage to pass any of your History courses?
A. With straight A's.

6. If you met my grandparents (Auschwitz survivors) what would you say to them?
A. I don't know. I would be as respectfull to them as I am to all elderly people. I would like to hear in thier own words what happened. But I don't think they could honestly tell me that they actually saw any gassings. Which grand parents are these, your mothers or your fathers parents?

Did you read my last post? in it is stated the following:

"The Cole [a jew] videotape interview proves that the people who run the Auschwitz State Museum had made a practice of fabricating 'proofs' of homicidal gassings. Keep in mind that over the years millions of tourists have been told that 'Krema 1' is in its original state, while officials knew that 'original state' is a lie."
That entire post is evidence that there was no holocaust.

I think if you took your own post more seriously, something might be accomplished here:

Good luck with your career.

 

OK, I just realized something. I don't think you're actually denying that the Holocaust happend. You're denying the gas chambers. That makes a little more sense.

To answer your questions...

1. Ravensbruck had gas chambers. I actually mentioned that in the post with all the links.
2. I'm Jewish on my dad's side. My mom converted when they got married.
3. Yes, I know that the Germans would have been willing to release people for money. Unfortunately, the United States was being run by an Anti-Semite. Sorry FDR fans!
4. My grandparents were in Auschwitz, and they told me that one of the main reasons people were starved, tortured, and allowed to die of disease in those camps is because the Germans wanted to make them feel less than human. They really don't like to talk about it but I can ask them if they remember anything. They left Auschwitz (not together, they met after the war but were in the camp around the same time), and were sent to other camps. My grandfather was liberated from Buchenwald and my grandmother from Belsen. They both lost family in Auschwitz, however..and it had nothing to do with Allies cutting supply lines.

I actually have more graphic photos to show you, but I need to organize them. So, I will get them organized and then I will post them. I'm going to assume that when you said; "They are not pictures, film footage or actual witnessings to the acts that are alledged" you're talking about pics of gas chambers and their victims. I will see if I can find some. I'm sure there are some out there.

Thank you for the vote of confidence on my career. At least you didn't say; "What are you going to do with a history degree?!?" *Sigh*

 

I DO DENY THE HOLOHOAX. IT NEVER HAPPENED. I ALSO DENY THE GAS CHAMBERS!
Now you know my position.

As to your response #3. The jews refused to pay the $2,000,000, not FDR. If FDR refused it it was because he was acting in accordance with the jews for he himself was one! This is his family tree:

First lady Elanor was a known communist sympathiser. So your claim that FDR was an antisemite is bogus.
Do you know what FDR did to the Germans after the war, in prison camps? You should honor that man, he was on your side. The American people were against going to war against Germany. He wanted it because it furthered the cause of the jews.

I am through arguing against your posts. Instead I will post substantiated facts for you to view. Otherwise, since you are providing nothing, I will simply be arguing against ignorance. There is no need to post your photos, except for shock value for your own gain. I have examined many. Blow some of them up that contain nude males and you will see that few are circumsised. Also, if you look closely at many of these photos, they are of the same people from different angles. As I said, I have examined these photos.


"With the dissolution of the former Soviet Union in 1991, the captured German records of the Auschwitz industrial complex were released by the Russians. Included were the 'Death Books', some 73 or 74 bound volumes, containing the death certificates and examining doctors' reports on all deaths in the industrial complex. The following figures should be of interest: The camp closed in January of 1945. The total death count was 73,137. Of these 47,539 died from typhus (which the Jewish partisans bragged that they had a hand in the introduction into the camps as part of their war effort). 25,598 died of 'natural' causes (including suicide, execution for sabotage, murder, theft of food and the like). 38,031 were listed as Jews on the death rolls."

"Do I "deny the holocaust"? No! No indeed. I hope the holocaust is not denied and never forgotten. I hope the holocaust is remembered as the greatest propaganda effort and hate campaign ever waged against a civilized people. We must never forget. We must look at the despoliation of our people and our culture and ask - Why do the heavens not darken? We have lost the will and courage to defend ourselves. The time has come to commit the new blasphemy. It is time to deny the gods of the New World Order and to honor those of us who will burn at the stake for doing so."

Lengthy, but educational reading:
http://www.rense.com/general54/fromm.htm

 

So much emphasis has been put on here about educational sources, and on the qualifications one has and doesnt have, that I am starting to think that some of our friends on the forums have something of a superiority complex on them.

I am 18. I have done both well at school and college and not well. Essentially I was a smart kid that also hated being told what to do by arrogant little hitler-clones and lied to and made to pray to ? every day and essentially oppressed in insidious ways. I knew I was being oppressed because my father taught me many things before I started school and during my time there, and these gave me the faculties I have today to be able to see through the painted veil we call reality.

I do not trust schools to bring children up properly and they do not. I do not trust them to give them the right information on important things because it would be "too challenging for their precious little minds". Then they grow up believing the mistruths they are told, the simple explanations rather then the in-depth.

And i do not trust the U.S. Government or Admin, past or present. I believe, i Know, that the Education programme in America is behind the rest of the developed world, and they are in fact creating a new class system by educating the rich and "blue-blooded" and by essentially dumbing down the general population. And it's not just in education. Electronic equipment emits harmful and dangerous radiation which cuts you off from the planet's, the sun's, the galaxy's positive radiation (I have proof before you start with the hippy mumbojumbo defence). That's what David Icke and many others talk about, and that's why the Mainstream Media say he's a nutter and try to oppress the views and ideologies he's trying to expose the world to (and doing reasonably well ) - Because they are part of the Web of Control, The Powers That Be, The Illuminati.

This thread has been hijacked, traced, found. Take out your phone line, scan your computer. Pray to your God or turn on your television if you like. But try listening to what I say because it might save your life in the near future.

 

Before you start (doing whatever, but before you start anyway ) There is a huge computer thingy that does scan the internet and conversatons for words like "Allah", "Illuminati", "Freedom", "Jihad" ---lots of words.

go to www.thesunmachine.net - its a huge site, with loads of recent funky and wierd news stories, some political, some funny, some wierd, but with a definite alternative edge to the site.

If you doubt anything of what I say this place would be a good place to look.

 

So, even though my grandparents were there and pictures are worth 1,000 words, you still deny that it happend? I find that interesting. How do you manage that?

I may have been thinking of Harry Truman. I know that someone in FDR's cabinet was an Anti-Semite. I do know, however, that Eleanor Roosevelt may have been a Communist sympathazier. But who cares?

The Nazis deserved punishment for what they did to my people, to the Gypsies, and to their other victims.

Oh, I saw your hateful retoric on Jews in the Religion board. You are a racist pervert who has been hyptnotised by fundamentalist Xians. Why not just join the KKK while you're at it? Do you really think you're going to be allowed to stay here that long? I doubt the mods will tolerate hate speech on a board meant for hippies, peace, and love.

 

I'm not sure who that was intended for...you should learn to lighten up and also to not be so dangerously errorous in your estimation of other people's intellects; it is You that have chosen the path of anger on this and you have chosen not to listen to other's, and remain ignorant to others. I have heard your story and met your type and you are a bigot for attempting to stem my ideas and the deeper information that was integral to inital post.

I assume i've offended more than just one, but let me explain my ideas somewhat, based on scientific theory of the moment. There is something called String Theory, which in its most basic elements suggests that the universe, reality as we perceive it, matter, is made up of tiny balls of tightly packed strings of energy. That is to say that matter is essentially bound together bits of energy vibrating at different levels. That sounds vaguely similar to what Eastern Mystics have been saying for millenia, what modern day spiritual gurus describe in their visions, what users of psychedelics have been saying forever (the word "vibes" came from "vibrations amazingly enough). Obviously, the universe being incredibly complex, there would have to be elements within it to stimulate certain energys within other entities and forms. Our minds can do this as a biological machine (but to limit ourselves to that description would be an injustice to what we can achieve with the machine). To have to explain this information can be tedious because i have readily accepted it into my life, even if you have not.

If you can remain open-minded enough to look into this, I promise you'll be amazed with what you find out.

 

It was obviously directed towards Warrior.

I'm not angry...I'm right. What we are talking about here isn't an opinion, but a FACT. The Holocaust happend. People who deny facts are morons who have no right to talk. If Warrior were denying the fact that 1+1=2, would you still be saying I (and the other Jews here) should be open-minded because that's his "opinion". Of course not, because his opinion isn't based in fact, and neither is his "opinion" on the Holocaust.

I don't know if you've ever taken a college-level communication class, but one of the primary things you learn is that opinions that aren't based in fact have no bearing. Warrior is just like every bigot. He's a fool and a moron. As for me, I'm not a bigot...but I do expect people to accept proven facts, and I wonder about the intellect of those who don't.

 

And here I was thinking I was the only one pissing people off this week.

geez..I can be an ass but this guy has now cornered that market.


I so love to read the blatherings of holocaust-deniers.especially when they are miss-spelled.(sp? lol)

 

Although you say that your anger was directed at me alone, I feel that it was directed at every person who disagrees with the holocaust lie. There are others who read this and they see that my points thus far have been very valid. Perhaps contrary to what they have been brainwashed into believeing, but valid none the less. They also see that you have produced no evidence in support of your claims that the holocaust was (is) anything more than a tool for propaganda used solely for the purpose of imposing feelings of guilt on nonjews. Further, since your people claim to be the "chosen children of God", why does He not help you in this argument, but instead guides my fingers across this keyboard with facts?
To scream anti-semite, racist, bigot, Nazi, etc., does not reinforce your side of this debate. If, indeed, you were in the right, you would have more proof than a bunch of repeated nonsense about pictures and your ancestors.

I too wonder about the intellect of those who dont accept proven fact.

"Speaking the truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act."
--- George Orwell

There always has to be an anti-semite somewhere doesn't there? I am anti-semite, just as you are anti-Christian. Whats the problem? Your door only swings one way?

For those who know no better, the word Xtians is Christians.
Nope. I am not a member of any organized church, fundamentalist or otherwise. So it would be very hard for them to get into my head in order to brainwash me. Please, continue to read my posts in the religion section. I will soon dazzle and amase you at what I am preparing to provide there. You see, I have studied your people, as well as the volumes of hate known as the Talmud. I enjoy exposing it. But here I am exposing the holohoax.

Holocaust is Nothing But A HoloHoax

Every day, in every aspect of the media, you will be reminded of the holocaust of World War II and the damage it did to one group of people. You are supposed to feel guilty and excuse away anything these people, who are portrayed as the only victims, now do to society. You are not to mention others, such as the Poles, Russians and Gypsies who suffered equally if not more, for that would detract from the lie with which the rest of humanity is being burdened. Sure, terribly evil things happen in war, but it is even more terrible to allow lies to be embellished and used to promote guilt, misunderstanding, blackmail and more evil. Sooner or later, there will be a worldwide confrontation arising from this deceit, and the liars will come off second best. It is for this reason I have reproduced a section of one of our books here:

Alan Dershowitz believes that all American Jews should think of themselves as victims of the Holocaust; his rationale is that they were ultimately targets of the Holocaust. But, the Holocaust is even bigger than that to the Zionists; they want everyone to believe that all wrong is done to the Jews, and no wrong is done by the Jews. And, there is a reason for this.

Robert Faurisson observes,

"Elie Wiesel won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1986. He is generally accepted as a witness to the Jewish Holocaust, and, more specifically, as a witness to the legendary Nazi extermination gas chambers...."

But in what respect is Elie Wiesel a witness to the alleged gas chambers? By what right does he ask us to believe in that means of extermination? In an autobiographical book that supposedly describes his experiences at Auschwitz and Buchenwald, he nowhere mentions the gas chambers. He does indeed say that the Germans executed Jews, but...by fire; by throwing them alive into flaming ditches, before the very eyes of the deportees! No less than that! Here Wiesel the false witness had some bad luck.

Forced to choose from among several Allied war propaganda lies, he chose to defend the fire lie instead of the boiling water, gassing, or electrocution lies. In 1956, when he published his testimony in Yiddish, the fire lie was still alive in certain circles. This lie is the origin of the term Holocaust. Today there is no longer a single historian who believes that Jews were burned alive. The myths of the boiling water and of electrocution have also disappeared. Only the gas remains.

* The gassing lie was spread by the Americans.

* The lie that Jews were killed by boiling water or steam (specifically at Treblinka) was spread by the Poles.

* The electrocution lie was spread by the Soviets."

Yes, these are all Holocaust lies.

"The fire lie is of undetermined origin. It is in a sense as old as war propaganda or hate propaganda, just like the false assertion of human (Jewish) skin being used to make lamp shades. In his memoir, Night, which is a version of his earlier Yiddish testimony, Wiesel reports that at Auschwitz there was one flaming ditch for the adults and another one for babies. He writes: Not far from us, flames were leaping from a ditch, gigantic flames. They were burning something. A lorry drew up at the pit and delivered its load - little children. Babies! Yes, I saw it - saw it with my own eyes...those children in the flames.'"

None of this ever happened. And, yet, such lies have earned Wiesel the Nobel Peace Prize, and made it "anti-Semitic" and even illegal to simply tell the truth about the Holocaust.

For the complete article go to:
http://www.israelect.com/reference/Willie-Martin/Holohoax.html

 

The pictures don't lie (at least in this case...and neither do the films), and neither do my grandparents or the other survivors. The fact that you have admitted that you are a racist makes your argument less than credible.

Do you have pictures that prove the Holocaust never happend? Do you have survivors who have said; "No, I lied...it never happend." Of course you don't. Because it DID happen. I also find it odd that you call my grandparents and the other survivors "liars" and say that what happend to them is "nonsense". I would like to know EXACTLY what you would say to my grandparents if you met them.

I certainly hope you don't have kids with your kind of attitude. My hope is that someone will figure it out and get your kids (and you) into counseling or even into foster care (for the kids) if necessary. I hope your children are able to break away from your hate.

And what makes you think I'm anti-Xian? I'm proud of those Xians who helped the Jews and other victims of the Holocaust. The people who hid Anne Frank, Cori Ten Boom and her family, and other Xians who helped are always in my thoughts and prayers.

I will say however that it's people like you who make me want to be a Zionist.

 

Cynical Otter...I could kiss you.

 

This is quite interesting, but you guys don't need to quote each others ENTIRE posts. You're going to shut down the internet for Christs sake.