9/11 Angst!!!

If the stock market crashes, we are ALL fucked. Why do you think that the WTC was a target ?

 

We could certainly spend a LOT less. We are getting ripped-off

 

I live in California and I don't see that, what I see is the fear that we need to accomodate illegal aliens and the Mexican government to the point that we lose our own rights. And no one ever questions the Mexican government as to why they can't support their own citizens.

 

Mexicans round here seem like nice peaceful people. Unassuming, hardworking family types. Thier women are not forced to wear headscarfs or Burquas

 

Here in California we don't judge people by what they wear but how they behave, and Mexican males can be as overbearing and outrageous as Muslim men. The Mexican attitude towards women is not much better. It's better here in the states because US women have stepped in and curtailed their unreasonable crap.

 

Unfortuantley it is true that patriarchal sexism still exists for the Mexican culture, however in time I think that'll change. I don't see what this has to do with 9/11, though. Can we try to at least partially stay on topic?

 

I think most of us have stayed on track. Only Piney seems to have veered off. But even then his agurments had meaning to him.

 

I'm actually from central NY, but that's still kind of close.

Quite honestly, I haven't seen or heard much about the Kennedys around here.

How do I feel? Well, it didn't affect me on a personal level, as no one I knew was killed, but I remember watching the news the day the 2003 shuttle came back and the horror at watching the shuttle break up before my eyes. I stopped watching the news for a little while because that footage was just a little too much for me...

Yes, that did happen in my school: one of my friends' older brothers was killed in a car accident. His drunk friend plowed them into a tree. The drunk driver survived. His friend did not. It was a great tragedy for our small town. We grieved, had a school memorial ceremony, went to calling hours, went to the funeral, and then moved on.
I see what you're saying. I get it. I really do, but no one sold tickets to the funeral. Know what I mean?

I think they're doing the same thing right now with potential terrorist threats at airports. I don't see anything wrong with being cautious, but I agree that there needs to be limits.

Their beliefs are different. It doesn't mean that most of them don't have good intentions. True, many, possibly most of them are insane- some people on this board would argue that simply holding a belief in any higher power is synonymous with insanity- but they are still human beings and their religion is very important to them. They way they've interpreted it is the way they're going to follow it, because according to their beliefs, that's the "right" thing to do.
I know I sound very Pollyanna right now, but one of the tactics of the military is to dehuminize the enemy so soldiers don't hold back when they fire on them, and the people of the nation don't lose their minds when they hear the list of foreign casualties. I don't want them to do that to me. I'm trying to see things from the perspective of the enemy, here.
In the end, we are all people, with friends, families, people who will miss us when we're gone, people who will be seriously affected in the event of our departure.
I know my family is afraid, and I know fear makes you do strange things. Maybe I'm just not scared enough. Maybe it hasn't hit me how much danger we're in, but I know if I lived in fear every day, I'd go crazy. I don't want to be so blinded by it that I can't see my own hand in front of my face.

 

Because it won't be quite so sensitive and people won't say "you just want attention!" every time I try to make a critical argument involving the way 9/11 was perceived. Maybe, when the wounds aren't so fresh, people will more readily accept another perspective. I'm not telling anyone to turn on the country. I'm saying turn on the capitalists and Middle-East-haters who use it as a cash cow and propaganda, respectively.
Excuse me if I have some respect for life left. It's just that when people die, I think you should mourn their loss and let them rest in peace. Tribute, if you must, but leave money and propaganda out of it.

Care to elaborate?

BINGO!
Despite every argument I've made...

1.) I didn't say ALL of them hated the idea, but I feel for those that do. Did you get all pissy at the ones who did, or is it just me?
2.) I have this thing going where I do care, at least what my family thinks of me. It doesn't influence my beliefs, but it does hurt a little when I see disappointment in their eyes. This is getting a bit personal, don't you think? Please drop the argument about my personal feelings toward my parents.

What the hell?? You can't seriously not know what I meant by that... Please tell me this was sarcasm...

And what is that supposed to mean?

You're saying that teaching diversity has done nothing? Care to back this up with statistics? You could be right, but that would be very sad...
And please, tell me what impact we can have on 9/11, or more specifically, to prevent an occurrance like 9/11, since I was so vague in distinguishing this before?

People were bound to see the jumpers, so that's no big secret, but how was it necessary that we be aware of the sound the bodies made when they hit the ground? I'm sorry but that's a fucking twisted bit of information I'm sure no one wants other than the sick and deranged...
And the 911 Emergency calls just serve to depress. That's personal. They should have either kept these things to themselves or given them to the families of the people that called in. There was no reason to publicise them. They're just sound bites to boost ratings in the eyes of the news stations anyway...

Yeah, well, wish in one hand...

It just kills you that I said something, doesn't it? I just said I'm getting out of here and going somewhere where I won't be lynched for organizing a meeting. Seriously, little kids can't even sell lemonade around here. That is not an exaggeration. But that's my problem and it wouldn't have even been brought up if I hadn't been probed about why I wasn't single-handedly putting an end to all of the things that bothered me.
This is a discussion forum, so I started a discussion in it. Maybe I didn't say the thing you wanted me to say, but that's hardly my issue. Practice what you preach: If you don't like it, don't look at it.

I'm sorry, I assumed that when you threatened to do it back, you were attempting to teach the other person it was wrong. My apologies on the hypocrite argument, unless I've misunderstood you again.
So, you believe in eye for an eye until the law takes over? Or is it just until things get serious?

 

I don't know what to think about this as of yet. You have thrown a wealth of information out there, though. Thanks for that. It's just a little hard for me to wrap my brain around right now... especially this late at night (my own fault for signing on so late).
Our government is a disgrace, but I didn't think anyone could be capable of such a deception and still sleep at night, remain alive, smile and wave, etc... Mayhaps this is why GW went back to the bottle?
I don't know. It's too late at night for me to read through it anyway...
Who knows? I might end up at your demonstration and I might not. I don't know what to believe about this. It's very disconcerting...

 

if you fall for that conspiracy theory crap, you deserve slapped upside the head

 

Well, get your slapping hand ready, because I haven't made up my mind yet, and that certainly will not influence me in the least.
Good night!

 

And I suppose that Duck and Moonflower did not bother to read my last post at all. Oh well, I'm used to being ignored. I assume it's because I am right and no one wants to argue with me...

Question. What was my gut level first reaction when the 9-11 attack happened? I was trying to figure out how George ever pulled it off... He ain't that smart. He must have hired Osama and some great yippie thinkers from back in the day to plan and pull it off and I bet Osama is high and happy on some beach somewhere spending the millions that he was paid to help with the deed.

I just wanna know one thing. I watched all the 9-11 hype movies that have been on the TV lately and I don't get how a couple people with boxcutters and possibly a "bomb" could overpower an entire plane full of people incuding full grown men, or why they would allow all those people to hang out unsupervised, giving them time to talk on the phone, say goodbye to loved ones, make plans, whatever... That's just plain stupid. Come on. If YOU were going to hijack an airplane, how would YOU go about it if you were determined to be successful? And how in the world would you ever coordinate it with the other planes, also being hijacked? The only answer to this is that things did not happen the way our so-called government says. Of course, an awful lot of folks are nothing but media zombies. Maybe they thought they were just watching another movie and that it was not real. Or maybe the general population tends to be of the assumption that they are always safe and that if something happens, someone else will take care of it, so they have slow reaction times. OR maybe the "hijackers" were actually someone (like American soldiers or policemen) who appeared to be in charge and the people on the planes were simply following orders. I cannot believe that out of all those people on the planes that EVERYONE was too scared and shocked to INSTANTLY try to take back control by any means necessary once they realized what was happening. NO one? Not until the third plane? Or maybe they did not even REALIZE they were in danger...
Well, I guess we can take heart. All those hyped up 9-11 movies did not rake in the dough as expected.

 

Oh, and while I'm thinkin' about this, that little exhibition (9-11) was absolutely designed to have MAXIMUM emotional impact (the fear factor), but MINIMUM damage. A REAL terrorist would probably want to have much more impact considering an attack of that magnitude. Instead, the trade center buildings which defied all laws of physics and gravity, came straight down. The Pentagon was only damaged on one side and could be repaired. And the plane that was THEORETICALLY headed for the Whitehouse, well, we are told that anyhow, adnauseum, it managed to crash and leave debris over an 8 mile area. Out in the country, again with minimal impact. Hum...

 

I agree with Firefly's original post. I understand that this was the "big thing" that happened in our generation, and that it'll go down in history forever and all that stuff, but I think people are wrong to make movies off of it, so soon especially.

"Crash", "World Trade Center", "Flight 93", "The Flight that Fought Back"... All in the past year alone. It's getting ridiculous.

I'm an American, and I feel bad about what happened, but I feel even worse about these major motion picture companies swooping in on the death of thousands of people. I mean, it's like Hollywood suddenly said: "Someone destroying the WTC? Now THAT will be a great movie!" and then they rush off and make the films with the cover of "emotionally empowering the American people" to hide their money-raking.

And, in truth, the destruction of the WTC, to me, does not justify this stupid war we have going on in the Middle East. Yeah, Osama and Al Queda killed our people, but someone please explain to me how our revenge turned into a full-blown war against Lebanon, North Korea, Iraq, Pakistan, and Afghanistan? I don't understand it.

That's my opinion, anyway. People can bitch and moan at me; I won't change it for your satisfaction.

 

it's because you conspiracy theorists hijacked the thread (or maybe the government did it, and made it look like it was you ), I am attempting to stay on topic

 

Uh huh. I believe you were the one who said something about "if you fall for that conspiracy theory crap, you deserve slapped upside the head". Just responding to that.

I thought I was very much on topic actually.
No matter. Firefly got pounced upon by folks who couldn't take her comments about 9-11, and chewed her out for posting them here. Well, I understand her point of view entirely. Guess I didn't need quite so many big words to say that?...

People who go looking for debates will most likely find them.

People who don't understand why someone would go posting their "horrible" opinions on a forum forget that the main reasons why people post on forums at all is either they don't feel they have enough social/intellectual stimulation at home to keep them happy, or else they just want someone to abuse and a stranger without a face is so much easier.

But I really shouldn't have to explain this to thinking adults.

Carry on...

 

attempting

related to the topic, not actually on the topic though

such as firefly, right?

who said they didn't understand why she would post such a thing?
you are dumb.

I'm 17...