2nd Amendment Protest

Good point. Imposing more laws and restrictions is moving us in the wrong direction. It creates a bigger problem in the sense that yet more folks will be in jail, which we as tax payers get to pay for. We've already got one out of a hundred adults in jail, most for nonviolent crimes like drugs, we don't need more.

 

Mother

I not pretending to misunderstand your point of view, I’m trying to understand your point of view and since I’m not telepathic I’m using the only medium I have here the written word to ask questions and seek clarification.

Even the most eloquent of persons, writing with what they think is the best of intentions to be understood, can be interpreted several ways. Just look at any religion that’s based on written works and you should see what I mean.

You may think you speak clearly and are not hard to understand but I’m sure many of the writers of the books of the Bible thought the same thing.

Actually someone would have to be the most arrogant person in the world to think that they alone of all the writers in history is so clear that they refuse to believe it can be open to interpretation or discussion.

In a forum such as this we have the unique ability to question the authors directly and seek clarification, as well as to field or post criticisms.

If someone is unwilling to answer questions or defend their ideas I wonder why they are here and is the unwillingness actually a cover for an inability to answer or defend their ideas, which makes me wonder why they have them and even more suspicious of their reasons for being here.

For example you’re claiming that martial law and rioting are imminent and using that as a way of promoting gun ownership by saying the only way to survive the trouble will be with a gun.

You might be right, you might be wrong but if I don’t know what you’re basing that belief on or the reasons for you thinking it, I don’t know. But the fact that you seem unable to explain or defend your viewpoint can only indicate that you haven’t much faith in it to stand up to scrutiny, so it’s very probably wrong and what’s more it would seem to indicate you probably suspect it is wrong as well.

It just seems like a scare story with the sole intention of selling gun ownership.

**

As to reading meaning into what people say again I’m seeking clarification.

Imagine if person (A) says – ‘it swims in the sea and has fins’

Isn’t it reasonable for (B) to ask ‘so you’re talking about a fish?’

(A) can be reasonable and clarify by saying ‘yes’ or ‘no I mean a dolphin’

Or they can be unhelpful by replying ‘Did I say that’ and then accuse (B) of twisting the words, before refusing to give any answer whatsoever.

Let’s just look at one of the comments you’re refusing to clarify –

You said - I think a person would be a FOOL not to have a viable means of protecting their families, homes, and belongings. This does NOT mean you would have to kill someone! Many times, just the sound of a gun being fired into the air would be enough to make someone think twice, or the thought that you are being shot at, even if the shooter is aiming at the ground near your feet would send many people running. And those who it DOESN'T send running MAY HAVE A GUN THEMSELVES and how are you gonna deal with that unless you have something similar?

From what your said why is not unreasonable to ask - "So the only way to try and have a better society is to either threaten people with a gun or use a gun on them?"

It’s a question – you could have been reasonable and have explained what you meant but instead you decided to be unhelpful

Did I say that anywhere? That's funny, I don't see that written anyplace in my post. I thought I was very clear. Try reading it again?

Is it that clear? You seem to be saying there is nothing that can be done about the deterioration of law and order so the only way to survive is by having a gun, the only way to better your society is through the threat or use of violence.

If you didn’t mean that, what did you mean?

Thing is that since you seem unable to answer the question, and instead are stalling or refusing to answer it seems very likely that to some degree or other the you do think the only way to try and have a better society is to either threaten people with a gun or use a gun on them.

**

Another example is the phase ‘survival of the fittest’

How is it to be interpreted?

To me is means ‘natural selection’ and I also believe humans have stepped out of that natural process by using unnatural processes of survival.

Humans have build societies, institutions and mechanisms, which for example allow humans to live way beyond what they would do without them. It allows us to keep alive people born with disabilities that would result in a quick death in a ‘natural’ setting.

Some have questioned if that is a good thing and wonder if ‘natural selection’ shouldn’t continue to govern human destiny.

Sometimes this is expressed in an economic way as a drain on society others it is a matter of what would be best for humans progress genetically.

Try reading - U.S. Eugenics Paralleled Nazi Germany
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/021500-02.htm

Would you support such schemes? I mean you seem to be an advocate of Social Darwinism, and have said – “it WILL end up that only the SMARTEST and STRONGEST survive. That is how it is SUPPOSED to be. Otherwise, humans will simply breed themselves into extinction.”

Actually this is an interesting subject, I’ll tell you what I’ll start another thread in politics on Social Darwinism.

**

 

Mellow

Quote:
And if guns are outlawed, there will be MANY more outlaws than there are now. Created by the government. And you'd be SURPRISED how many people could be turned into outlaws just by that one thing.

Good point. Imposing more laws and restrictions is moving us in the wrong direction. It creates a bigger problem in the sense that yet more folks will be in jail, which we as tax payers get to pay for. We've already got one out of a hundred adults in jail, most for nonviolent crimes like drugs, we don't need more.

But regulating guns to try and get them out of the hands of criminals isn’t outlawing guns it just seems like the prudent thing to do to bring about a better society, but my point is that gun control isn’t a panacea, other things need to be addressed but many people arguing that guns can be used to tackle the symptoms of societal problems don’t actually seem to give much thought to why those societal problems exist.

The US has the biggest prison population per 100,000 in the world, and it is also one of the largest executers of criminals in the world.

These are meant to be deterrents, yet it is still one of the largest consumers of illicit drugs and has a huge number of murders.

The thing is that it seems to me that many Americans don’t see such things and think something has to change they see that and turn to guns to hopefully see them through.

In other words guns seem for many to be a way to forget about their society’s problems.

**

 

Yea ok you are bound and determined to snare me in your trap, Blabus. I see that you insist on more attention than the average beast. So I will attempt ONCE AGAIN to get you to understand English.

I don't know who you think you are talking to. I am not a statistic or a generalization, I am an individual. I do NOT see the world in black and white, either one way or another with no room for maneuvering. "Either with us or against us" is not how I look at things.

There are a MILLION ways to work at making the world a better place. It would be ridiculous to try to list everything I can think of here. It would take several full length books. Better to say that the best anyone can and SHOULD do is to do some things EVERY SINGLE DAY with the betterment of the earth, life, humanity, etc. in mind. Which is more than most folks do on a daily basis. Random acts of kindness, caring, and common sense every single day and practiced by EVERYONE would go very very far towards making this world a paradise on earth. BUT. How are you gonna convince all those people of this? I sure don't know how. You can't FORCE people to do the proper things. If you try you become a DICTATOR and no better than our police state type government. Other than setting a good example, which is MANDATORY in order to have any influence at all, I cannot seem to find the cure-all for all the worlds ills. People ultimately must take responsibility for what they do themselves. Sorry.

You give humans far too much credit. They may THINK they are not part of the natural order any more because they are so far "advanced", but that thought process is part of the problem. They can try with all their might to get above all that but ultimately EVERYTHING boils down to survival of the fittest in the natural sense. Nature overrules EVERY MAN MADE IDEA, it's inescapable. Perhaps you are not certain of the MEANING of the word "fittest"? I doubt that. Maybe your idea of what "fittest" means is different than someone else's. But basically it all boils down to the same thing, no matter how you wish to perceive it. Those with the best survival abilities will survive.
No matter HOW you wish to define it, no matter how "modern" you may think yourself to be, we all become just the same in a life or death situation.

No matter how much you try to muddy the discussion by twisting what people say, REALITY dictates that if you are in a dangerous situation, you have a better chance of survival if you have the appropriate tools to protect yourself, WHATEVER those tools may be. That is purely COMMON SENSE! And in a situation such as that, it matters NOT how hard a person works towards "making the world a better place". I could spend every single day of my life serving others less fortunate, but if someone breaks into my home in the middle of the night and I have no way to defend myself, then chances are I will NO LONGER BE ABLE TO DO ALL THE THINGS I WAS DOING TO TRY TO HELP THE WORLD BE A BETTER PLACE! Do you get it yet? If you don't, I'm sorry, but I'm not able to be any clearer than that. It is FOOLISH to live and work among dangerous animals without taking precautions! SURELY you can grasp THAT???

You have a really BAD habit of reading things into what people say that they did NOT say. If I say "it's a cloudy rainy day" I DON'T necessarily mean "I feel lazy and I'm gonna put off all my work until the sun shines". That is an EXAMPLE, so don't get confused. MOST people SAY WHAT THEY MEAN. When you ask for extreme clarification of the obvious, it is a WASTE OF TIME. I was SUPPOSED to be writing an article for our local news, but instead needed to set a total stranger straight about something that was obvious. So in spending all this extra time trying to convince you of NOTHING, I've put my schedule of DOING THINGS TO MAKE THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE behind. Thanks alot. Are you happy now?

 

As usual, you'll get no argument from me there. The question then is whether it would be more beneficial for our society to outlaw guns. My stand is that it would not be. As Americans, we like to think we're the freest people on the planet. We're not. Our problem with guns is a manifestation of our societal problems, which are a product of being repressed, controlled, manipulated, segregated, isolated, alienated. There are too many damned rules, to the point where it's so easy to end up on the wrong side of the law, and once you're there, well, it's easy to go further out of sheer frustration, and the self fulfilling prophecy of being labelled a criminal.

 

Mother

Amazing a post of clarification that doesn’t even attempt to answer many of the questions that where meant to bring clarity.

You seem to have claimed that martial law and rioting are imminent and I are using that scare story to sell the virtues of gun ownership but I’m still no the wiser as to what specifically your basing you claims on?

You seemed to be saying that in you view there was nothing that could be done about the deterioration of law and order so the only way to survive is by having a gun, the only way to better your society is through the threat or use of violence. If you didn’t mean that, what did you mean?

I asked you to read this - U.S. Eugenics Paralleled Nazi Germany
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/021500-02.htm

And then asked- Would you support such schemes? I mean you seem to be an advocate of Social Darwinism, and have said – “it WILL end up that only the SMARTEST and STRONGEST survive. That is how it is SUPPOSED to be. Otherwise, humans will simply breed themselves into extinction.”

**

Now lets see what you did write

 

There are a MILLION ways to work at making the world a better place. It would be ridiculous to try to list everything I can think of here.

Very true but you must have some ideas.

Here are some musing of my own.
http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4190423&postcount=10

**

Better to say that the best anyone can and SHOULD do is to do some things EVERY SINGLE DAY with the betterment of the earth, life, humanity, etc. in mind. Which is more than most folks do on a daily basis. Random acts of kindness, caring, and common sense every single day and practiced by EVERYONE would go very very far towards making this world a paradise on earth.

So it is better to just hope rather than think of some concrete idea?

“Random acts of kindness, caring ..”

Oh hell that’s the first rung on this particular ladder of thought have you never attempted to step up?

It is a great start and I agree (although one persons ‘common sense’ is another foolishness) – but the next thought should be - how do we bring about conditions were that is more likely to happen and is easier to do.

But is seems you are not able to make that step – “BUT. How are you gonna convince all those people of this? I sure don't know how”

You don’t know you haven’t got a clue?

How about making the world a better place? You claim that there “are a MILLION ways to work at making the world a better place” so many that it “would be ridiculous to try to list everything I can think of here.”

Is not one of those million ideas about working toward bring about a kinder and more caring world, if not they’re all worthless.

**

“You can't FORCE people to do the proper things.”

First what is the ‘proper thing’ – the people that gassed the Jew at Auschwitz believed they were doing the right thing, the people that enforced the Jim Crow laws thought they were doing the right thing.

Force was needed to stop both.

And remember racists can be kind and caring to what they consider their own sort.

The thing is if you consider other people dangerous animals that are out to get you if you drop your guard and push that idea on others that is not likely to make people act kindly to them or to care much about them.

It is what the Nazis said about the Jews and many white people of the blacks in the southern states of the US.

**

If you try you become a DICTATOR and no better than our police state type government. Other than setting a good example, which is MANDATORY in order to have any influence at all, I cannot seem to find the cure-all for all the worlds ills. People ultimately must take responsibility for what they do themselves. Sorry.

Again you might not have a ‘cure-all’ but you do claim to have a million ideas for making a better world are none of them about bringing about are kinder and more caring world?

**

You give humans far too much credit. They may THINK they are not part of the natural order any more because they are so far "advanced", but that thought process is part of the problem. They can try with all their might to get above all that but ultimately EVERYTHING boils down to survival of the fittest in the natural sense. Nature overrules EVERY MAN MADE IDEA, it's inescapable.

This sound profound but if you actually try to work out what it means it turns out to be meaningless –

What do you mean by – “EVERYTHING boils down to survival of the fittest in the natural sense” – what the hell is a natural sense when we are talking about unnaturally human built societies, institutions and mechanisms?

Nature overrules EVERY MAN MADE IDEA, it's inescapable.- again think about it what do you actually mean within the context of this discussion?

But you continue in this folly -

Perhaps you are not certain of the MEANING of the word "fittest"? I doubt that. Maybe your idea of what "fittest" means is different than someone else's. But basically it all boils down to the same thing, no matter how you wish to perceive it. Those with the best survival abilities will survive.

Yet humans have build societies, institutions and mechanisms, which for example allow humans to live way beyond what they would do without them. It allows us to keep alive people born with disabilities that would result in a quick death in a ‘natural’ setting.

The old, the disabled, the infirm, the mentally ill, and many others haven’t the ‘natural’ abilities to survive but they can with the aid of ‘unnatural’ and human institutions and mechanisms.

**

No matter HOW you wish to define it, no matter how "modern" you may think yourself to be, we all become just the same in a life or death situation.

But if I’m in need of a life saving operation I’d rather be in modern day Britian, as a UK citizen with access to the ‘modern’ medicine and resources of the NHS than a hominid roaming the Africa of 1,000,000 year ago.

**

No matter how much you try to muddy the discussion by twisting what people say, REALITY dictates that if you are in a dangerous situation, you have a better chance of survival if you have the appropriate tools to protect yourself, WHATEVER those tools may be. That is purely COMMON SENSE! And in a situation such as that, it matters NOT how hard a person works towards "making the world a better place".

You’ve just being saying that such tools are unimportant in a ‘natural sense’ and suddenly you are saying that it is just ‘common sense’ that they are?

Do you find nothing contradictory by seemingly saying in one breath that “modern" tools are unimportant and with the next claiming they are essential?

Is this your definition of being clear, if so, I should warn you it is not?

If I’m in hospital fighting for my life I would be very happy to have the unnatural humanly constructed NHS, the un-natural and modern hospital, the unnaturally education system that produced the doctor and nurses, the unnatural drugs of a modern pharmaceutical age, the unnatural modern tools such as heart monitors and brain scans, and I be glad of the unnatural welfare state that means I can afford the treatment.

**

I could spend every single day of my life serving others less fortunate, but if someone breaks into my home in the middle of the night and I have no way to defend myself, then chances are I will NO LONGER BE ABLE TO DO ALL THE THINGS I WAS DOING TO TRY TO HELP THE WORLD BE A BETTER PLACE! Do you get it yet? If you don't, I'm sorry, but I'm not able to be any clearer than that.

But why is the person breaking into your house?

Why do you think the chances are that they are there to do you harm?

Why do you feel your society is such a dangerous, fearful and threatening place, look at your very next statement -

It is FOOLISH to live and work among dangerous animals without taking precautions! SURELY you can grasp THAT???

I mean is that how you see your neighbours, work colleagues and fellow citizens?

Is that the message you want to give to other people?

Is such an attitude likely to bring about a kinder and more caring society?

Or is it likely to make people more wary, suspect and fearful.

But then it is always easier to sell gun ownership to those that are fearful than to those that feel safe.

I live in the largest city in the UK and virtually everyone I meet, on the bus , in the street, at work or down the pub are friendly and helpful, I don’t think of them as dangerous animals.

There are confused, damaged and dangerous people out there but they are still people not unthinking or unfeeling beasts and there is always some reason for their attitudes and actions.

If you think humans are irredeemable how do you sympathise and therefore care for them?


**

You have a really BAD habit of reading things into what people say that they did NOT say. If I say "it's a cloudy rainy day" I DON'T necessarily mean "I feel lazy and I'm gonna put off all my work until the sun shines". That is an EXAMPLE, so don't get confused.

But that’s not what you said, you seemed to be saying that in you view there was nothing that could be done about the deterioration of law and order so the only way to survive is by having a gun, the only way to better your society is through the threat or use of violence. If you didn’t mean that, what did you mean?

**

MOST people SAY WHAT THEY MEAN.

But often things have a meaning to them that to others might seems ambiguous.

Most writers throughout history have written what they mean, but others have interpreted it differently

You may think you have said what you mean clearly and are not hard to understand but I’m sure many of the writers of the books of the Bible thought the same thing.

Actually someone would have to be the most arrogant person in the world to think that they alone of all the writers in history is so clear that they refuse to believe it can be open to interpretation or discussion.

**

When you ask for extreme clarification of the obvious, it is a WASTE OF TIME.

But why is asking why a waste of time? It is the basis (or should be) of education. How can anyone find out what is meant by anything without asking questions?

I want to know what you mean and you are here presumably to tell others what you mean, so what’s your problem with explaining what you mean, if you have nothing to hide?

**

I was SUPPOSED to be writing an article for our local news, but instead needed to set a total stranger straight about something that was obvious. So in spending all this extra time trying to convince you of NOTHING, I've put my schedule of DOING THINGS TO MAKE THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE behind. Thanks alot. Are you happy now?

Well maybe it would be better if you stopped spreading your ideas when they so clearly need more thought as is obvious from the fact they seem at times patchy, confused and you’re seemingly unable to answer questions about them?

**

 

There are a MILLION ways to work at making the world a better place. It would be ridiculous to try to list everything I can think of here.

Very true but you must have some ideas.

Here are some musing of my own.
http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4190423&postcount=10

Excuse me but I just said there were a million ways to work at making the world a better place. Those ARE ideas, as obviously no one has ever come up with the solution. Again, I would have to write a book to list them all. I have more ideas than you have sense, apparently. I don't need to go into all of them. I don't have a week to explain every single thought I have on the subject to a stranger who will only pick apart what I say and claim they don't understand. What part of THAT don't you understand?

**

Better to say that the best anyone can and SHOULD do is to do some things EVERY SINGLE DAY with the betterment of the earth, life, humanity, etc. in mind. Which is more than most folks do on a daily basis. Random acts of kindness, caring, and common sense every single day and practiced by EVERYONE would go very very far towards making this world a paradise on earth.

So it is better to just hope rather than think of some concrete idea?

“Random acts of kindness, caring ..”

Oh hell that’s the first rung on this particular ladder of thought have you never attempted to step up?

It is a great start and I agree (although one persons ‘common sense’ is another foolishness) – but the next thought should be - how do we bring about conditions were that is more likely to happen and is easier to do.

But is seems you are not able to make that step – “BUT. How are you gonna convince all those people of this? I sure don't know how”

You don’t know you haven’t got a clue?

How about making the world a better place? You claim that there “are a MILLION ways to work at making the world a better place” so many that it “would be ridiculous to try to list everything I can think of here.”

Is not one of those million ideas about working toward bring about a kinder and more caring world, if not they’re all worthless.

YOU don't make any sense. Please proof read. You act as if you thought somehow I'm supposed to have all the answers to a problem that nobody has EVER been able to solve! Those things are more than the first rung. They are the basis for all the rest. Without them there is nothing else good to follow.

**

“You can't FORCE people to do the proper things.”

First what is the ‘proper thing’ – the people that gassed the Jew at Auschwitz believed they were doing the right thing, the people that enforced the Jim Crow laws thought they were doing the right thing.

Force was needed to stop both.

And remember racists can be kind and caring to what they consider their own sort.

The thing is if you consider other people dangerous animals that are out to get you if you drop your guard and push that idea on others that is not likely to make people act kindly to them or to care much about them.

It is what the Nazis said about the Jews and many white people of the blacks in the southern states of the US.

Oh, blah blah blah. It is commonly stated that humans are the most dangerous animals on the planet. You have never heard that before? I'm surprised. You are being entirely too picky. Common sense is a close relative to truth. And kissing cousins to "right" versus "wrong". THESE ARE NOT OPINIONS we are talking about! Thay are FACTS. I am not racist. There is no room for truth, caring, compassion, kindness, or common sense in racism. You are spewing nonsense about Jews and Nazis which has absolutely nothing to do with anything I have said.
**

If you try you become a DICTATOR and no better than our police state type government. Other than setting a good example, which is MANDATORY in order to have any influence at all, I cannot seem to find the cure-all for all the worlds ills. People ultimately must take responsibility for what they do themselves. Sorry.

Again you might not have a ‘cure-all’ but you do claim to have a million ideas for making a better world are none of them about bringing about are kinder and more caring world?

WHAT did you say? Please proof read.

**

You give humans far too much credit. They may THINK they are not part of the natural order any more because they are so far "advanced", but that thought process is part of the problem. They can try with all their might to get above all that but ultimately EVERYTHING boils down to survival of the fittest in the natural sense. Nature overrules EVERY MAN MADE IDEA, it's inescapable.

This sound profound but if you actually try to work out what it means it turns out to be meaningless –

What do you mean by – “EVERYTHING boils down to survival of the fittest in the natural sense” – what the hell is a natural sense when we are talking about unnaturally human built societies, institutions and mechanisms?

Nature overrules EVERY MAN MADE IDEA, it's inescapable.- again think about it what do you actually mean within the context of this discussion?

But you continue in this folly -

Perhaps you are not certain of the MEANING of the word "fittest"? I doubt that. Maybe your idea of what "fittest" means is different than someone else's. But basically it all boils down to the same thing, no matter how you wish to perceive it. Those with the best survival abilities will survive.

Yet humans have build societies, institutions and mechanisms, which for example allow humans to live way beyond what they would do without them. It allows us to keep alive people born with disabilities that would result in a quick death in a ‘natural’ setting.

The old, the disabled, the infirm, the mentally ill, and many others haven’t the ‘natural’ abilities to survive but they can with the aid of ‘unnatural’ and human institutions and mechanisms.

More blah blah blah. LIKE I SAID, maybe not so nicely this time, NATURE ultimately overrules technology. All your blather about modern medicine lacks any common sense. It matters not how modern and technologically great we are. All modern medicine does is create a weaker human species over the course of time. And it is artificial, keeping alive those weaker or sicker humans who would have died if not for that. This thinking that we are so great and don't have to answer to the natural laws is folly. Humans are breeding themselves into extinction.

I'm an animal breeder. Any good animal breeder knows YOU DON'T BREED ANIMALS WITH DEFECTS! It causes lots of trouble over the generations, with animals with more and more genetic defects as time goes on. It's the same with humans. We are now into several generations of "modern medicine" keeping people going and breeding that otherwise would not have. Until you figure out a way to keep PROCREATION out of the mix, the NATURAL ORDER cannot and will not stop having the biggest ultimate effect. Technology be damned.

All this technology you keep worshiping is simply ARTIFICIAL. We WERE talking about life and death situations. Those are NOT artificial, they are real.
**

No matter HOW you wish to define it, no matter how "modern" you may think yourself to be, we all become just the same in a life or death situation.

But if I’m in need of a life saving operation I’d rather be in modern day Britian, as a UK citizen with access to the ‘modern’ medicine and resources of the NHS than a hominid roaming the Africa of 1,000,000 year ago.

SO? Good for you... The subject is not modern medicine. The subject was guns, remember?

**

No matter how much you try to muddy the discussion by twisting what people say, REALITY dictates that if you are in a dangerous situation, you have a better chance of survival if you have the appropriate tools to protect yourself, WHATEVER those tools may be. That is purely COMMON SENSE! And in a situation such as that, it matters NOT how hard a person works towards "making the world a better place".

You’ve just being saying that such tools are unimportant in a ‘natural sense’ and suddenly you are saying that it is just ‘common sense’ that they are?

Do you find nothing contradictory by seemingly saying in one breath that “modern" tools are unimportant and with the next claiming they are essential?

DUDE! NOplace did I say such tools were unimportant! Where did I say that? Point it out. Specifically show me where I have said ANY of this nonsense that you claim I am saying. Seriously.

Is this your definition of being clear, if so, I should warn you it is not?

Look, why don't you try going back to school and learning how to read and listen. Learn to read and comprehend what you are reading! Or do you have learning disabilities? If so, my apologies. (that was a random act of kindness)

If I’m in hospital fighting for my life I would be very happy to have the unnatural humanly constructed NHS, the un-natural and modern hospital, the unnaturally education system that produced the doctor and nurses, the unnatural drugs of a modern pharmaceutical age, the unnatural modern tools such as heart monitors and brain scans, and I be glad of the unnatural welfare state that means I can afford the treatment.

And??? Your point is?

**

I could spend every single day of my life serving others less fortunate, but if someone breaks into my home in the middle of the night and I have no way to defend myself, then chances are I will NO LONGER BE ABLE TO DO ALL THE THINGS I WAS DOING TO TRY TO HELP THE WORLD BE A BETTER PLACE! Do you get it yet? If you don't, I'm sorry, but I'm not able to be any clearer than that.

But why is the person breaking into your house?

Great big giant *DUH. Because not all people are the same and some actually DO things like that. Maybe they need money for all those expensive UNNATURAL medical treatments...

Why do you think the chances are that they are there to do you harm?

Duh #2. *See the other DUH. Have you ever heard of mentally unstable people? Have you ever heard of the criminally insane? Have you ever heard of criminals at all??? Geez, they are out there...

Why do you feel your society is such a dangerous, fearful and threatening place, look at your very next statement -

It is FOOLISH to live and work among dangerous animals without taking precautions! SURELY you can grasp THAT???

I mean is that how you see your neighbours, work colleagues and fellow citizens?

Is that the message you want to give to other people?

Is such an attitude likely to bring about a kinder and more caring society?

Or is it likely to make people more wary, suspect and fearful.

But then it is always easier to sell gun ownership to those that are fearful than to those that feel safe.

You know, I expect people to think for themselves. I'm not trying to "sell" anything. I'm just stating truth, common sense, and reality. I expect most folks are smart enough to figure it out. I'm sorry you are not. I suppose I should be flattered that you think I have such great power as to manipulate the way people think about certain subjects.

I live in the largest city in the UK and virtually everyone I meet, on the bus , in the street, at work or down the pub are friendly and helpful, I don’t think of them as dangerous animals.

And they are the same here. But humans come with no guarantees. Here, try this. Google the phrase "humans are the most dangerous animal". How many times can you find that statement? It seems to be a pretty common thought. It also is TRUE. There is no way to refute that statement. Because it IS true.

There are confused, damaged and dangerous people out there but they are still people not unthinking or unfeeling beasts and there is always some reason for their attitudes and actions.

Of course, so next time someone points a gun at me I should psychoanalyse them...

If you think humans are irredeemable how do you sympathise and therefore care for them?

OK, point out EXACTLY where I said that.


**

You have a really BAD habit of reading things into what people say that they did NOT say. If I say "it's a cloudy rainy day" I DON'T necessarily mean "I feel lazy and I'm gonna put off all my work until the sun shines". That is an EXAMPLE, so don't get confused.

But that’s not what you said, you seemed to be saying that in you view there was nothing that could be done about the deterioration of law and order so the only way to survive is by having a gun, the only way to better your society is through the threat or use of violence. If you didn’t mean that, what did you mean?

"...Seemed to be saying...." Aha! finally, a bit of truth. Not I WAS saying, but I SEEMED to be.

Didn't I already state what I thought would go a long way towards making the world a better place? Other than that, unless you believe there is someone out there with super powers who can snap their fingers and discover the cure for all the worlds ills, I would have to say that there IS NOTHING we can do about the deterioration of "law and order". The entire system we live in is artificial. "Law and order" are manmade concepts. Either we live as enlightened and honorable humans or we don't and no amount of "law and order" will fix that. Thus the reason for the record numbers of people in the jail system at present. Don't you figure that if someone could find a way to stop all people from doing anything "wrong" they would?

Maybe we just need to get even simpler so you CAN understand.
Supposing you were out on a boat in the middle of the ocean. Your entire life is pretty much controlled by your relationship to WATER. It's a very nice boat, much like the Titanic. But many of the people on the boat do not know how to swim. Well, those people can simply stay ON THE BOAT, yes? They don't HAVE to jump overboard, do they. COMMON SENSE says "don't jump overboard if you don't swim." But supposing someone TOSSES you overboard? Supposing the ship starts sinking. You would be a total FOOL to go riding around on the ocean, not being able to swim, without LIFEBOATS AND LIFEJACKETS. Or you could just bury your head in the sand and state that it is a very nice boat and it cannot sink and therefore you will just spend the rest of your life living the good life on the boat and who needs a life raft, right?
Not very smart.

**

MOST people SAY WHAT THEY MEAN.

But often things have a meaning to them that to others might seems ambiguous.

Most writers throughout history have written what they mean, but others have interpreted it differently

You may think you have said what you mean clearly and are not hard to understand but I’m sure many of the writers of the books of the Bible thought the same thing.

Actually someone would have to be the most arrogant person in the world to think that they alone of all the writers in history is so clear that they refuse to believe it can be open to interpretation or discussion.

Whatever.... I ain't writin' no damn bible. I am writing as clearly as I speak and nobody I know has a hard time understanding my words.

**

When you ask for extreme clarification of the obvious, it is a WASTE OF TIME.

But why is asking why a waste of time? It is the basis (or should be) of education. How can anyone find out what is meant by anything without asking questions?

I want to know what you mean and you are here presumably to tell others what you mean, so what’s your problem with explaining what you mean, if you have nothing to hide?

You seem to be the ONLY person having so much trouble understanding what I say. Haven't you noticed that? Should I be on a presonal mission to make sure that YOU in particular get more attention than anyone else?

**

I was SUPPOSED to be writing an article for our local news, but instead needed to set a total stranger straight about something that was obvious. So in spending all this extra time trying to convince you of NOTHING, I've put my schedule of DOING THINGS TO MAKE THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE behind. Thanks alot. Are you happy now?

Well maybe it would be better if you stopped spreading your ideas when they so clearly need more thought as is obvious from the fact they seem at times patchy, confused and you’re seemingly unable to answer questions about them?

No, the only thing I'm "unable" to do is play your time consuming game of let's pretend you said something you didn't.

You seem the only one unable around here. I don't see anyone else having so many comprehension troubles. I'm pretty fed up with your time wasting as you can tell. Do not expect any more answers from me as you have become a time and energy hog. I could care less if you understand me or not. MOST EVERYBODY ELSE DOES. You are not any more special than anyone else yet you demand all the attention. You insist on understanding things you have no intention of understanding, but still insist on answers which have already been given. Why? You obviously don't care what the answers are, as you are never happy with any of them. So, don't expect any more from this conversation that that. I don't. You, my friend, are an energy sucker.

 

Sounds like a great idea. I'm sorry I missed it. We should organize another for this spring. The Fourth of July would be another good time for an event like this, the national holiday.

Supporting America by supporting the Constitution. What could be more radical in this day and age?

 

You're right, pretty radical, but a very cool thing to do. Next year...

 

It's not radical to actively support the constitution. That is, of course, so long as you're supporting ANYTHING but the 2nd amendment.

 

here here mom i wish i could express myself as well as you!!!!

 

You have a good point there.

 

*Excuse me but I just said there were a million ways to work at making the world a better place. Those ARE ideas, as obviously no one has ever come up with the solution. Again, I would have to write a book to list them all. I have more ideas than you have sense, apparently. I don't need to go into all of them. I don't have a week to explain every single thought I have on the subject to a stranger who will only pick apart what I say and claim they don't understand. What part of THAT don't you understand?

Yet for all the buster and wild claims of a million ideas the only one you seem to be consistently pushing is gun ownership as a way dealing with the symptoms of the societal problems?

**

*Better to say that the best anyone can and SHOULD do is to do some things EVERY SINGLE DAY with the betterment of the earth, life, humanity, etc. in mind. Which is more than most folks do on a daily basis. Random acts of kindness, caring, and common sense every single day and practiced by EVERYONE would go very very far towards making this world a paradise on earth.

So it is better to just hope rather than think of some concrete idea?

“Random acts of kindness, caring ..”

Oh hell that’s the first rung on this particular ladder of thought have you never attempted to step up?

It is a great start and I agree (although one persons ‘common sense’ is another foolishness) – but the next thought should be - how do we bring about conditions were that is more likely to happen and is easier to do.

But is seems you are not able to make that step – “BUT. How are you gonna convince all those people of this? I sure don't know how”

You don’t know you haven’t got a clue?

How about making the world a better place? You claim that there “are a MILLION ways to work at making the world a better place” so many that it “would be ridiculous to try to list everything I can think of here.”

Is not one of those million ideas about working toward bring about a kinder and more caring world, if not they’re all worthless.

*YOU don't make any sense. Please proof read. You act as if you thought somehow I'm supposed to have all the answers to a problem that nobody has EVER been able to solve!

Not all the answers but you are claiming you have a million ways to work at making the world a better place. The thing is you seem to be refusing to talk about any of them – however you do seem willing to sell the idea that gun ownership is a good way of dealing with the symptoms of you society’s problems.

*Those things are more than the first rung. They are the basis for all the rest. Without them there is nothing else good to follow.

That’s just rhetoric, the translation of which seems to be you don’t have a clue how to bring about the conditions were kindness and caring are likely to flourish so instead you are hoping guns will protect you from the symptoms of societal problems.

**

*“You can't FORCE people to do the proper things.”

First what is the ‘proper thing’ – the people that gassed the Jew at Auschwitz believed they were doing the right thing, the people that enforced the Jim Crow laws thought they were doing the right thing.

Force was needed to stop both.

And remember racists can be kind and caring to what they consider their own sort.

The thing is if you consider other people dangerous animals that are out to get you if you drop your guard and push that idea on others that is not likely to make people act kindly to them or to care much about them.

It is what the Nazis said about the Jews and many white people of the blacks in the southern states of the US.

*Oh, blah blah blah. It is commonly stated that humans are the most dangerous animals on the planet. You have never heard that before? I'm surprised. You are being entirely too picky.

The thing is if you consider other people dangerous animals that are out to get you if you drop your guard and pushing that idea on others is not likely to make people act kindly to them or to care much about them.

Rather than being the way to kindness it seems to open the way to abuse, just as it did when pushed by the Nazis who portrayed the Jews as dangerous animals who were out to corrupt and subjugate the German people.

**

Common sense is a close relative to truth. And kissing cousins to "right" versus "wrong". THESE ARE NOT OPINIONS we are talking about! Thay are FACTS.

Who’s ‘common sense’?

It was just ‘common sense’ to the Nazis that the Jews needed to be exterminated. It was their ‘truth’ and they believed the ‘right’ thing to do, it wasn’t an opinion that the Jews were sub-human vermin it was simply a ‘fact’ to them.

Just because something is commonly believed to be true, which is all common sense means, doesn’t make it a truth, ‘the common sense of what is true’ can change in time and place and often has. It was commonly believed the world was flat, that the sun circled the earth and that black people or Jews were sub humans.

You just seem to be trying to use ‘common sense’ to close down an opposing view just as the church or the Nazis did to close down dissent from what they saw as the ‘truth’.

**

*I am not racist. There is no room for truth, caring, compassion, kindness, or common sense in racism. You are spewing nonsense about Jews and Nazis which has absolutely nothing to do with anything I have said.

The Nazis ideas on what was best for the human race grew out of eugenics.

Did you read U.S. Eugenics Paralleled Nazi Germany http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/021500-02.htm

I notice you still haven’t answered the question of if you would have supported such schemes?

The ‘racist’ killings began with the idea that for humans to progress into smarter and stronger animals the feeble, stupid and disabled shouldn’t be allowed to breed (or live), I mean is there any point in “keeping alive those weaker or sicker humans who would have died” if not helped constantly? But if you are getting rid of one set of ‘defectives’ wasn’t it just ‘common sense’ to start on others that ‘everyone knew’ were also ‘defective’ like homosexuals, gypsies, Jews, Slavs, blacks, etc.

**

*If you try you become a DICTATOR and no better than our police state type government. Other than setting a good example, which is MANDATORY in order to have any influence at all, I cannot seem to find the cure-all for all the worlds ills. People ultimately must take responsibility for what they do themselves. Sorry.

Again you might not have a ‘cure-all’ but you do claim to have a million ideas for making a better world are none of them about bringing about are kinder and more caring world?

*WHAT did you say? Please proof read.

To quote –

“I cannot seem to find the cure-all for all the worlds ills”

“There are a MILLION ways to work at making the world a better place”

You might not be able to mandate that people be kind and caring but why not work toward creating a better world where it is easier to be kind and caring?

Instead you seem to be saying that people should fear others and get a gun to protect themselves from them.

Is that in your opinion the way to a better world?

**

 

*You give humans far too much credit. They may THINK they are not part of the natural order any more because they are so far "advanced", but that thought process is part of the problem. They can try with all their might to get above all that but ultimately EVERYTHING boils down to survival of the fittest in the natural sense. Nature overrules EVERY MAN MADE IDEA, it's inescapable.

This sound profound but if you actually try to work out what it means it turns out to be meaningless –

What do you mean by – “EVERYTHING boils down to survival of the fittest in the natural sense” – what the hell is a natural sense when we are talking about unnaturally human built societies, institutions and mechanisms?

Nature overrules EVERY MAN MADE IDEA, it's inescapable.- again think about it what do you actually mean within the context of this discussion?

But you continue in this folly -

*Perhaps you are not certain of the MEANING of the word "fittest"? I doubt that. Maybe your idea of what "fittest" means is different than someone else's. But basically it all boils down to the same thing, no matter how you wish to perceive it. Those with the best survival abilities will survive.

Yet humans have build societies, institutions and mechanisms, which for example allow humans to live way beyond what they would do without them. It allows us to keep alive people born with disabilities that would result in a quick death in a ‘natural’ setting.

The old, the disabled, the infirm, the mentally ill, and many others haven’t the ‘natural’ abilities to survive but they can with the aid of ‘unnatural’ and human institutions and mechanisms.

*More blah blah blah. LIKE I SAID, maybe not so nicely this time, NATURE ultimately overrules technology. All your blather about modern medicine lacks any common sense. It matters not how modern and technologically great we are. All modern medicine does is create a weaker human species over the course of time. And it is artificial, keeping alive those weaker or sicker humans who would have died if not for that. This thinking that we are so great and don't have to answer to the natural laws is folly. Humans are breeding themselves into extinction.

I'm an animal breeder. Any good animal breeder knows YOU DON'T BREED ANIMALS WITH DEFECTS! It causes lots of trouble over the generations, with animals with more and more genetic defects as time goes on. It's the same with humans. We are now into several generations of "modern medicine" keeping people going and breeding that otherwise would not have. Until you figure out a way to keep PROCREATION out of the mix, the NATURAL ORDER cannot and will not stop having the biggest ultimate effect. Technology be damned.


So you think humans should be breed like animals?

And that the best thing for the human race would be to stop modern medicine and technology from keeping alive those weaker or sicker humans who would die otherwise?

What are you breeding for the smartest and strongest you talked of earlier, but who decides what is smart and what strong?

So what about the rejects in this breeding programme, are they to be forbidden to breed, sterilised maybe, or just killed for the good of the species, to stop it breeding itself into extinction?

Is there going to be a test of intelligence, I mean you already seem to think I’ve got a learning disability, if I had would that mean I wouldn’t be allowed to have children in you ‘better’ ‘kinder’ future?

But the thing is as I’ve mentioned before I’m actually, dyslectic, something that is often described as a learning disability, but it still didn’t stop me getting a degree.

**

 

All this technology you keep worshiping is simply ARTIFICIAL. We WERE talking about life and death situations. Those are NOT artificial, they are real.

And guns are naturally occurring rather than artificial, manmade objects?

So a life saving operation isn’t real? It doesn’t count as a life and death situation even though if you hadn’t had it you would have died?


**

*No matter HOW you wish to define it, no matter how "modern" you may think yourself to be, we all become just the same in a life or death situation.

But if I’m in need of a life saving operation I’d rather be in modern day Britian, as a UK citizen with access to the ‘modern’ medicine and resources of the NHS than a hominid roaming the Africa of 1,000,000 year ago.

*SO? Good for you... The subject is not modern medicine. The subject was guns, remember?

It was a comment on your view that ‘modern’ advances were unnatural (e.g. artificial) ‘tools’ that were no use in life and death situations, but while attacking the chemical and technological advances of medicine you seem to be promoting other technological and chemical advances such as the ‘modern’ unnatural gun.

**

*No matter how much you try to muddy the discussion by twisting what people say, REALITY dictates that if you are in a dangerous situation, you have a better chance of survival if you have the appropriate tools to protect yourself, WHATEVER those tools may be. That is purely COMMON SENSE! And in a situation such as that, it matters NOT how hard a person works towards "making the world a better place".

You’ve just being saying that such tools are unimportant in a ‘natural sense’ and suddenly you are saying that it is just ‘common sense’ that they are?

Do you find nothing contradictory by seemingly saying in one breath that “modern" tools are unimportant and with the next claiming they are essential?

*DUDE! NOplace did I say such tools were unimportant! Where did I say that? Point it out. Specifically show me where I have said ANY of this nonsense that you claim I am saying. Seriously.

You seemed to be saying that mans advances were for nought compared with nature, and therefore not useful to survival.

You then seem to be saying that such advances were essential and natural as survival tools.

**

Is this your definition of being clear, if so, I should warn you it is not?

*Look, why don't you try going back to school and learning how to read and listen. Learn to read and comprehend what you are reading! Or do you have learning disabilities? If so, my apologies. (that was a random act of kindness)

LOL – so to you, being sarcastic, is a random act of kindness? But yes I’m dyslectic but I can still read what you’re writing, comprehension is a bit more difficult, but that’s due more to your own contradictions and obfuscation.

For example the argument you seem most favourite in falling back on is some supposed ‘common sense’ you use it over and over to try and shut down a debate.

If I’d ever tried to use such a trick in a school or university essay I would have been quickly and rightly pulled up on it.

It is what’s used when a person doesn’t have a rational arguemet in the sense of – ‘It’s just common sense that I’m right, so I don’t have to justify it’

**

If I’m in hospital fighting for my life I would be very happy to have the unnatural humanly constructed NHS, the un-natural and modern hospital, the unnaturally education system that produced the doctor and nurses, the unnatural drugs of a modern pharmaceutical age, the unnatural modern tools such as heart monitors and brain scans, and I be glad of the unnatural welfare state that means I can afford the treatment.

*And??? Your point is?

You claim such tools “create a weaker human species over the course of time. And it is artificial, keeping alive those weaker or sicker humans who would have died if not for that.”

Yet –

The unnaturally mining of ores, that are made unnaturally into metals, that are unnaturally smelted, forging and worked, into unnatural components that are assembled into a gun that fires a bullet and shell that have also been unnaturally made from ore, which is propelled by an unnaturally occurring explosive.

Are essential tools of survival?

And these guns I’ve often been told by gun advocates help someone weaker to hold off or defeat an attack from someone stronger.

So why is that not a case of a weaker human surviving when if not for the artificial means of a gun they wouldn’t?

**

*I could spend every single day of my life serving others less fortunate, but if someone breaks into my home in the middle of the night and I have no way to defend myself, then chances are I will NO LONGER BE ABLE TO DO ALL THE THINGS I WAS DOING TO TRY TO HELP THE WORLD BE A BETTER PLACE! Do you get it yet? If you don't, I'm sorry, but I'm not able to be any clearer than that.

But why is the person breaking into your house?

*Great big giant *DUH. Because not all people are the same and some actually DO things like that. Maybe they need money for all those expensive UNNATURAL medical treatments...

LOL, If these people were committing crimes to pay for such treatment isn’t that survival and wouldn’t that be in your philosophy the right thing to do?

And why are they not getting medical treatment when they desperately needed it?

And if they had no choice but to steal to gat such treatment is making fun of that a sign of your caring and kind nature?

Anyway it’s not exactly a very thought out reply is it, (they do because they do) why haven’t you wondered beyond that mental shrug?

**

Why do you think the chances are that they are there to do you harm?

*Duh #2. *See the other DUH. Have you ever heard of mentally unstable people? Have you ever heard of the criminally insane? Have you ever heard of criminals at all??? Geez, they are out there...

The mentally unstable and criminally insane, you mean sick people – again is this your caring side?
Why are these people not receiving treatment already? In a better world they would be so why not try working toward that world rather than making up scare stories to try and sell the idea of gun ownership. I mean are you claiming that every burglary in the US is undertaken by the criminally insane?

**

Why do you feel your society is such a dangerous, fearful and threatening place, look at your very next statement -

*It is FOOLISH to live and work among dangerous animals without taking precautions! SURELY you can grasp THAT???

I mean is that how you see your neighbours, work colleagues and fellow citizens?

Is that the message you want to give to other people?

Is such an attitude likely to bring about a kinder and more caring society?

Or is it likely to make people more wary, suspect and fearful.

But then it is always easier to sell gun ownership to those that are fearful than to those that feel safe.

*You know, I expect people to think for themselves. I'm not trying to "sell" anything. I'm just stating truth, common sense, and reality. I expect most folks are smart enough to figure it out. I'm sorry you are not. I suppose I should be flattered that you think I have such great power as to manipulate the way people think about certain subjects.

Oh again with the ‘common sense’, and you version of ‘truth’ and ‘reality’ being its personification.

Let’s see are you trying to scare people?

You’ve talked of the imminence of martial law and rioting (oh and I notice you still haven’t actually said what you are basing that on)

You’ve told people that everyone they live next to or work with is a dangerous animal and potential attacker.

You’ve talked as if all house breakers are the criminally insane breaking in with the sole purpose of attacking the occupants.

And you do seem to be pushing guns as a means of ‘dealing’ with these things.

**

I live in the largest city in the UK and virtually everyone I meet, on the bus , in the street, at work or down the pub are friendly and helpful, I don’t think of them as dangerous animals.

*And they are the same here. But humans come with no guarantees. Here, try this. Google the phrase "humans are the most dangerous animal". How many times can you find that statement? It seems to be a pretty common thought.

So your first proof that people need guns to protect them from the dangerous human animals that at any moment will attack them is how many times a phrase comes up on Google?

Alien abduction come up a lot on Google is that proof it exists?

*It also is TRUE. There is no way to refute that statement. Because it IS true.

Then you second piece of proof is your personal belief that it’s true.

LOL – you talked of school, do you think if you wrote an essay with that as your definition for knowing how to work out ‘truth’ that you wouldn’t get pulled up on it?

Please if you have kids, don’t home school them.

**

 

There are confused, damaged and dangerous people out there but they are still people not unthinking or unfeeling beasts and there is always some reason for their attitudes and actions.

*Of course, so next time someone points a gun at me I should psychoanalyse them...

But why allow it to get to the point where they have a gun and are using it?

**

If you think humans are irredeemable how do you sympathise and therefore care for them?

*OK, point out EXACTLY where I said that.

“It is FOOLISH to live and work among dangerous animals without taking precautions!”

They can be nothing else but dangerous animals, all of them? You seem to have even reaffirmed that viewpoint. So you are saying all humans are irredeemable, they are and will forever remain threatening and dangerous animals.

I ask again, so if you think that and live in constant fear of them how do you sympathise and therefore care for them?

**

You have a really BAD habit of reading things into what people say that they did NOT say. If I say "it's a cloudy rainy day" I DON'T necessarily mean "I feel lazy and I'm gonna put off all my work until the sun shines". That is an EXAMPLE, so don't get confused.

But that’s not what you said, you seemed to be saying that in you view there was nothing that could be done about the deterioration of law and order so the only way to survive is by having a gun, the only way to better your society is through the threat or use of violence. If you didn’t mean that, what did you mean?

*"...Seemed to be saying...." Aha! finally, a bit of truth. Not I WAS saying, but I SEEMED to be.

So the question still stands?

You seemed to be saying that in you view there was nothing that could be done? Is that correct, if not what are you saying?

**

*Didn't I already state what I thought would go a long way towards making the world a better place?

A breeding programme, to create uber humans?

Stopping medicine and technology keeping alive those that would die without it?

Treating everyone as a threatening and dangerous animal?

Being sarcastic toward the less fortunate?

Or LOL, the bit about you being caring and kind?

Oh yes and the ‘million’ other things that you’re just refusing to discuss.

**

Other than that, unless you believe there is someone out there with super powers who can snap their fingers and discover the cure for all the worlds ills, I would have to say that there IS NOTHING we can do about the deterioration of "law and order".

Not even one of your million ideas for making a better world? If not don’t you think you need some new ideas?

**

*The entire system we live in is artificial. "Law and order" are manmade concepts. Either we live as enlightened and honorable humans or we don't and no amount of "law and order" will fix that.

So the problem is human concepts just like the artificial human concepts of enlightenment and honour?

That makes no sense.

**

*Thus the reason for the record numbers of people in the jail system at present. Don't you figure that if someone could find a way to stop all people from doing anything "wrong" they would?

So why is the US figure so high and others much lower? (I mean according to the BBC “the US makes up 5% of the total global population, it now accounts for 25% of the world's prisoners”)

Again this doesn’t make much sense are you saying that Americans are more criminally minded? And since most people in US jails are black are you saying black people are more criminally minded than whites? (BBC again “One in three African-American men aged 20-29 is in jail, on probation or on parole as opposed to one in 15 of their white counterparts”)

**

*Maybe we just need to get even simpler so you CAN understand.
Supposing you were out on a boat in the middle of the ocean. Your entire life is pretty much controlled by your relationship to WATER. It's a very nice boat, much like the Titanic. But many of the people on the boat do not know how to swim. Well, those people can simply stay ON THE BOAT, yes? They don't HAVE to jump overboard, do they. COMMON SENSE says "don't jump overboard if you don't swim." But supposing someone TOSSES you overboard? Supposing the ship starts sinking. You would be a total FOOL to go riding around on the ocean, not being able to swim, without LIFEBOATS AND LIFEJACKETS. Or you could just bury your head in the sand and state that it is a very nice boat and it cannot sink and therefore you will just spend the rest of your life living the good life on the boat and who needs a life raft, right?
Not very smart.

WOW mother you really now how to be completely whacky. That’s your idea of simplicity?

You see your society as a passenger ship, or is it the world you see as a passenger ship? So who do you see as the crew and who are the passengers?

And millions have crossed the oceans of the globe for years without harm so why of all the countless ships do you say this one has to be like the Titanic, a ship that sink. Do you see your present society that way, as inevitably going to sink?

**

*MOST people SAY WHAT THEY MEAN.

But often things have a meaning to them that to others might seems ambiguous.

Most writers throughout history have written what they mean, but others have interpreted it differently

You may think you have said what you mean clearly and are not hard to understand but I’m sure many of the writers of the books of the Bible thought the same thing.

Actually someone would have to be the most arrogant person in the world to think that they alone of all the writers in history is so clear that they refuse to believe it can be open to interpretation or discussion.

*Whatever.... I ain't writin' no damn bible. I am writing as clearly as I speak and nobody I know has a hard time understanding my words.

So the Titanic thing above is an example of your clear style of writing, and your constant reference to ‘common sense’ as some type of be all and end all argument is an example of you rational thought?

**

When you ask for extreme clarification of the obvious, it is a WASTE OF TIME.

But why is asking why a waste of time? It is the basis (or should be) of education. How can anyone find out what is meant by anything without asking questions?

I want to know what you mean and you are here presumably to tell others what you mean, so what’s your problem with explaining what you mean, if you have nothing to hide?

*You seem to be the ONLY person having so much trouble understanding what I say. Haven't you noticed that? Should I be on a presonal mission to make sure that YOU in particular get more attention than anyone else?

If you don’t want your views to be challenged don’t give them, if you don’t like to be asked questions leave.

**

*I was SUPPOSED to be writing an article for our local news, but instead needed to set a total stranger straight about something that was obvious. So in spending all this extra time trying to convince you of NOTHING, I've put my schedule of DOING THINGS TO MAKE THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE behind. Thanks alot. Are you happy now?

Well maybe it would be better if you stopped spreading your ideas when they so clearly need more thought as is obvious from the fact they seem at times patchy, confused and you’re seemingly unable to answer questions about them?

*No, the only thing I'm "unable" to do is play your time consuming game of let's pretend you said something you didn't.

But I notice you’re still not answering questions and you clearly your ideas are still in need of thought, if the constant reference to ‘common sense is anything to go by.

**

You seem the only one unable around here. I don't see anyone else having so many comprehension troubles. I'm pretty fed up with your time wasting as you can tell. Do not expect any more answers from me as you have become a time and energy hog.

Oh the tired old excuse so you don’t have to answer questions you are unable or unwilling to answer.

**

*I could care less if you understand me or not. MOST EVERYBODY ELSE DOES. You are not any more special than anyone else yet you demand all the attention. You insist on understanding things you have no intention of understanding, but still insist on answers which have already been given. Why? You obviously don't care what the answers are, as you are never happy with any of them. So, don't expect any more from this conversation that that. I don't. You, my friend, are an energy sucker.

Rant over?

So can you actually explain your views and answer the questions please?

**

 

You must be lacking in common sense. Common sense dictates that anyone who posts incredibly long posts, one after another on a forum - 4 in a row - MAY be seen as having hijacked a thread.

Common sense dictates that there is a CHANCE that a total stranger might not be interested in answering the nearly 70 questions on those 4 lengthy posts. Common sense also dictates that if a person already feels they have answered enough questions, that they might not feel like answering any further questions.

Anyone with common sense can see that in your last lengthy post, almost every single thing I wrote, your answer was "you seem to be saying"..... which would make anyone with common sense realize that you are INFERRING things. Reading things into what I say.

OK. You SEEM to be saying that you do not understand the concept of common sense. You SEEM to be saying that while you find the unnatural use of modern medicine acceptable if you need it to survive, but somehow a gun is not acceptable if you need IT to survive. Whatever. Who cares. I'm not going to convince you of anything. Nor am I trying to.

You SEEM to be saying that you do not understand a thing I say, yet you SEEM to have a really big IMAGINATION when it comes to telling me what you THINK I said...

You SEEM to be a person who simply demands a disproportionate amount of attention.

Please stop asking me questions and then imagining the answers.

Please stop hijacking threads.

Please take a break, go outside and take a walk, get some fresh air, clear your mind. Common sense dictates that someone as obsessed as you SEEM to be could end up with ulcers or worse.

 

American opinions on firearm posession constitute a country - city split.


No politician is advocating confiscation of all guns. The big case now is a 1976 Washington DC ban on personal gun ownership. The US Supreme Court may hear the case soon. Washington Mayor Adrian Fenty's brief to The Supreme Court rests on the idea that the Second Amendment protects posession of firearms only in the service of an organized militia.

A federal appeals court last year struck down DC's gun control law on the grounds that it violates the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms. If the Supreme Court affirms the ruling might generate challenge to New Yorks Sullivan law which mandates licensing and registrationof handguns.

Both of the Democratic Presidential canditates have stated that the Second Amendment applies to individuals not just well regulated militia. I am not sure where the candidates stand on the merrits of the DC court case.

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Mother

You must be lacking in common sense. Common sense dictates that anyone who posts incredibly long posts, one after another on a forum - 4 in a row - MAY be seen as having hijacked a thread.

LOL, so lets see you’re hijacking the term ‘common sense’ to mean anything that just really is only your opinion?

As I’ve said all you seem to have is this bundle of bias and bile you call ‘common sense’ and it seem to have taken the place of all rational or reasonable thought in you head.

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Common sense dictates that there is a CHANCE that a total stranger might not be interested in answering the nearly 70 questions on those 4 lengthy posts.

Is it common sense to come to a place where questions are going to be asked and then just make up excuses for not answering them?

Why not try this novel idea – think up something to say that you can defend?

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Common sense also dictates that if a person already feels they have answered enough questions, that they might not feel like answering any further questions.

So what’s the point of such a person staying somewhere were questions are going to be asked, if they are going to refuse to answer them?

And it doesn’t make any sense to lie about answering questions if they haven’t if they never intended to answer the questions in the first place?

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Anyone with common sense can see that in your last lengthy post, almost every single thing I wrote, your answer was "you seem to be saying"..... which would make anyone with common sense realize that you are INFERRING things. Reading things into what I say.

I’m seeking clarification, I’m still waiting for clarification and some answers, and you’re the one refusing to explain you views or answer questions about them.

This is the second time you’ve attacked the ‘seeming’ bit of a question, you asked me if I’d been to school, have you?

Or are you claiming you have absolute knowledge that nothing is unknown to you that you never need to ask questions, seek clarification or do more study?

Are you saying that nothing ‘seems’ like something to you, because you have a supernatural ability to just absolutely know the answer?

Is that why you think that what you believe is ‘common sense’ since you know everything, anything you believe must be ‘common sense’?

But if you just know everything, why is it you seem so unable to actually explain or answer anything in a rational or reasonable way?

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OK. You SEEM to be saying that you do not understand the concept of common sense.

To repeat - things that are commonly believed to be true, “which is all common sense means, doesn’t make it a truth, ‘the common sense of what is true’ can change in time and place and often has. It was commonly believed the world was flat, that the sun circled the earth and that black people or Jews were sub humans.

To you ‘common sense’ seems to mean anything you believe to be true but are unable to explain, answer questions on or defend in any way other than shouting that it is ‘common sense’ that you are right.

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You SEEM to be saying that while you find the unnatural use of modern medicine acceptable if you need it to survive, but somehow a gun is not acceptable if you need IT to survive. Whatever. Who cares. I'm not going to convince you of anything. Nor am I trying to.

No and I’ve said many times that I’m not against someone defending themselves in any reasonable way (if needs be I can quote).

You’re the one who seems to be claiming that modern medicine is an artificial folly because it unnaturally keeps the “weaker or sicker humans” alive when they should be dead. But believes the modern guns which is also artificial and unnatural is somehow a boon to mankind, even when used to help the weaker to survive attacks that without them would leave them dead? (and I can quote you on it if you want).

Is it part of your ‘common sense’ to have seemingly contradictory views?

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You SEEM to be saying that you do not understand a thing I say, yet you SEEM to have a really big IMAGINATION when it comes to telling me what you THINK I said...

As I’ve said if you stopped making excuses for not answering and just answered the questions I’ve been posing and explained what you mean, we might actually find out what you mean when you make your ambiguous statements.

Instead I’m wondering why you seem so unable or unwilling to explain yourself or answer questions.

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You SEEM to be a person who simply demands a disproportionate amount of attention.

Oh my, imagine that, someone asking questions on a forum that’s about asking questions, if you don’t like replying to people why not post on a blog instead?

Then you can rant to you hearts content, make silly asides and as many ambiguous statements as you want and never be asked to explain yourself.

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Please stop asking me questions and then imagining the answers.

Please answer the questions and stop making excuses for not doing so.

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Please stop hijacking threads.

LOL ok I’ll leave you alone when you stop making what seem to be rather silly, fatuous or inaccurate comments that you seem unable to clarify or explain.

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Please take a break, go outside and take a walk, get some fresh air, clear your mind. Common sense dictates that someone as obsessed as you SEEM to be could end up with ulcers or worse.

Oh my poor earthmother, as I’ve said many times before, I come here to de-stress, I enjoy coming here and posting here. I learn a lot and laugh a lot. Your obvious discomfort at being unable or unwilling to explain your views has had me laughing out loud today.

As to being obsessed, I come here virtually every day, it is true, sometimes several times a day, but that’s because I’m a moderator here.

But I don’t always post; in fact, days can go by between me seeing a post I’d like to reply to and actually getting around to posting a reply.

I wonder why you are here, you don’t have to be and you don’t seem willing to answer questions, so why?

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