2nd Amendment Protest

pitt

Yeah you are correct its not 222 its 225. Fat fingering a keyboard is not “point scoring”

The point scoring I was referring to was not your mistake but your habit of making accusations you never seem able to back up.

--------

Oh so he wrote a full explanation of what he believes to be the social, economic, cultural and political problems facing the US and his ideas on how to tackle them?

Did he do this?

No I didn’t say he wrote a “full explanation” I said he “did address the point of your post #217 in post #219.”

Come on St balbus quit “point scoring”

well did he, what did I ask for in 217?

“This is great, brilliant, that’s what I’ve been waiting for someone that is pro-gun but also willing to discuss what they think are the social, economic, cultural and political problems and their ideas for dealing with them outside of the framework of the threat, intimidation attitude.
Thanks again Michael, please go ahead tell me your ideas.”

So did Michael wrote a full explanation of what he believes to be the social, economic, cultural and political problems facing the US and his ideas on how to tackle them?

**

 

Ya think? 'Seems to me they've got more control by keeping guns legal, 'cause now they can track the guns. Besides, anyone who might be a threat to the government (terrorist groups, etc.) will have illegal weapons either way, no? And if a group of us got together with the notion of resisting or overthrowing the government, we'd be quickly thwarted.

 

Yellow

I agree with a lot of what you say but think on this – if a lot of people believe that guns allows them to deal with societal problems so that they then stop thinking about the reasons for such problems or about alternative ways of dealing with them. What happens?

That is what I’ve being trying to study.

I mean have you noticed that a lot of the most active pro-gunners just seem to clam up when you try to talk about such alternatives to the threat and suppression outlook?

**

I’ve been pointing out ‘threat/fear’ as control a mechanism for some time, savage Indians, the yellow peril, uppity blacks, seditious communists, evil drug pushers, crazed terrorists; they merge from one into another throughout US history. The politicians have used such fears to push there agenda or gain influence and pro-gunners have done the same, promoting the idea of the armed citizen, as the bulwark against such threats.

Try –

http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253937

and

http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=269500&postcount=71

 

Ah, Bulldog...Balbus and Mellow are gonna have a field day with your post man. By losing your temper (although I can understand why) he's gonna paint you as the "typical hot-headed, violent pro-gun nut job" and equate your post on a message board with a mass-murder shooting killing spree!!!

 

Damn, somebody lost their temper? I always miss the good stuff.

OK, now I see where you're going with this. I checked out your links, you have a point (good posts BTW). If a majority of "pro-gunner" Americans use guns as a means of dealing with society's problems instead of thinking about the resons for these problems, we're in trouble, that's a fact. However, revoking Americans' 2nd ammendment rights because of this idea might serve as a bandade, but not a solution. You need to get at the root of problem, which is fear and ignorance. So then where do you draw the line? Do you give folks a psychological profile when they apply for a gun permit? I know they do background checks.

When I was in the military some 25 years ago, I served a tour of duty in Europe. One major difference I noted about the the culture over there is there was far less crime, and far less of a police presence. The people policed themselves. Over here on the baboon's side of the pond I can't get through a single day without seeing several police, it seems we are incapable of conducting ourselves without an oppressive police presence. Or are we? Maybe it's this constant presence that compounds our fears, coupled with a cut throat competitive culture that alienates us, makes us feel powerless. Yet we feel a false sense of security because we've got this hunk of metal locked away in the closet just in case. Maybe if we did away with the fear mongering and levelled the playing field a bit economically, we wouldn't have these problems.

Note that I served in the military for eight years, and I was a good soldier. Unfortunately, I had one problem: I questioned things. Of course, I was smart enough to keep my mouth shut and do what I was told within reason, but it was clear to me I wasn't cut out to be career military, especially when the first Gulf war broke out and I realized the military amounted to no more than pawns to be exploited for personal gain by the oil men in power. I wanted no part of that, so I took my walking papers.

Most "pro-gunner"/NRA/right wing types hate guys like me because I don't conform to their ignorance, and I don't respond to their intimidation tactics. My hair's too long, I think for myself, I'm free, I'm eccentric, I'm passive, and I'm not afraid, so I guess that makes me a threat. But I still like guns.

 

Well, someone made some posts under the name bulldog or something like that. A certain someone must not have liked a certain something he said because now he's vanished without a trace.

This argument or "theory" that Balbus has...I'm so very sick of hearing it. You make it out like those who would consider using a gun to protect their home are doing SO MUCH LESS to solve society's problems than all the anti-gun people. That's faulty logic (or illogical, basically) and total BS.

Yes Balbus, I said it. Your theory is wrong, in my humble opinion anyway. It's not like the U.S. has high crime rates because the whole population is sitting there saying "duh i don't care what happens I gots my gunzz!!!"

It's the population AS A WHOLE, WHETHER 'PRO GUN', OR 'WISH GUNS WERE BANNED' PEOPLE; all not doing enough or enough of the right thing. Don't blame the guns, and don't blame the people who strongly support the 2nd amendment of OUR constitution.

No, we're not. Don't you remember what happened in New Orleans once the big bad police went away?

I didn't see any groups of people coming together singing cumbaya. I saw the vast majority of people taking advantage of the lawless state and doing...things. Same thing happened during the New York blackout, the big earthquake in San Francisco, and many other times people knew the police wouldn't be there to stop them from doing whatever the hell they wanted.

Believe me, I'm no fan of the police state we're becoming here...but to say that we'd all be better off with no cops is LUDICROUS. It would be absolute anarchy unlike anything you could ever imagine. It's sad, but true.

 

Take what I say here with a grain of salt. I'm not trying to attack anyone or take sides, I'm just trying to play devil's advocate, and make people question their attitudes.

I'm not saying we should get rid of cops, we need cops. What I'm suggesting is we take a more critical look at what we've become, and what we can do to change it, but first we gotta change our mindsets and question ourselves.

The lawlessness in New Orleans was the result of economic disparity. Not that I think it was justified, but you get a group of people who are impoverished to begin with, put them in a natural disaster that our government did nothing to protect them from, and you've got a recipe for riots and looting.

As the disparity gets worse, so does the violence. People are frustrated because they have no way of making an honest living, so they are driven to violence as a means to get even, and it's often a matter of survival. It's crazy that the wealthiest, most powerful country on earth can't provide it's citizens with the basic needs, yet somehow it bestows obscene wealth on a limited few who have absolutely no concern for their fellow man. It's uncivilized.

So now we're conditioned to live in fear, and somehow the threat of violence has become an acceptable way to react to it.

 

Great piont.Mellow..

We all need to leaarn to take controle over our own lives..
We give to many people to much controll over our own lives..


Pat attention to thiss people..
Yes our country forgets the poor, but we need to quit using this as areason to faill..
My mother was an addict..
I lived with my dad in a time when the oilfield wasnt making any money..
Out on my own at 15......
Raised myself..
Ive made my mistakes .
We all have..
I had moved to P-cola..in 04
Evacuated for Ivan..
stayed threw Dennis and Katrina...
I was apart of one of the very first realif trucks privatly owned to enter into Gulf Port ,Ms..
I was living in a tent on the edge of P-cola.. When my boss asked me if I wanted to help!
The on;ly people that got help in P-cola were the rich..
There are still people there after 3 years that still havent rebuilt either...
I was more than happy to do so..
I saw personallly how everyone set up there posts .
Starting from Fort walton, to mobil..
They were waiting on our desaster
Weeks after Katrina they had no realif atall
I was there..All those people had in some cases were people like us.. Just as broke as they were ..
In some cases they wouldnt let us do0wn there..
They said there was to much devistating...
These were towns that were leaveled..Not just flooded..
There was no where to loot from...
These people had nothing..
In New Orleans people were takin from what ever they could ..
If our right to bare arms had been taken before then ..
We would have had pure chaos..

We need to do the best with what theyve got..
Imnot hookn..
Stealing..
etc..
I grew up with just as rough of a life as any of these people..
I want to help people..
Useing the down falls of my country to fail was not an option to me..
i use the failors in life to succeed..
We all should do more of that instead of pionting fingers and geting but hurt cuz someone doesnt see your piont of view or doesn't aggree with it..
Dont get made ..
Have a healthy debate speak up for us and channal your energy productively ..
You will be supprised how ,much your whole out look changes//

 

I stared a bog i would like people to visit it and post your thought and ideas..

Or just tell me what you think


Its called
Show americas Balls..
www.shutshitt.blogspot.com...
Also
www.averageamericansvoice.blogspot.com
I just started just tryin to get my feet wet in this..
So there not much on it..
The piont is to here what everyone has to say about the issues that bother them or the issues that mean the most..
No jokes thow please..

Please contribute and any ideas or sujestions are greatly appreciated.

 

Mellow

Maybe if we did away with the fear mongering and levelled the playing field a bit economically, we wouldn't have these problems.

Again I agree, but have you noticed the degree of fear mongering being used by many pro-gunners to promote gun ownership?

And have you noticed that they seem unable to discuss general societal issues?

What I’m asking is why – why do they seem to see guns as a means of dealing with and therefore ignoring many of the social, economic and political problems within their society.

 

Michael

You say my theory is wrong, but please explain why it is wrong

Very simply the theory is - guns seem to be seen by many Americans as a way of dealing with and therefore ignoring many of the social, economic and political problems within their society.

You claim that ‘people’ are not doing enough of the right things but what are the ‘right things’ all you have promoted so far is guns as a means of tackling crime what other ideas have you?

Now the outward manifestations of my theory would be people that were unable and unwilling to discuss general societal problems while defending and promoting guns as a means of tackling such social problems.

You seem unable and unwilling to discuss societal problems but at the same time you seem very vocal in the promotion of guns as a means of tackling social problems such as crime.

So in what way is my theory wrong?

**

 

Good question. I dunno if I can answer it, given that I don't empathize with that mindset, but I'll take a crack at it.

We lack personal responsibility. It's always someone else's fault, and someone else's problem. If we could own up to our problems, instead of passing the buck, that would be a first step in coming up with non-violent solutions.

Furthermore, we're experiencing privatization, to the point where the basic needs can't be taken for granted any more. Any of us could end up on the street with nothing at any time, due to unfortunate circumstances like illness, etc. We're alienated and insecure, because we have this perceived need to compete for resources, and protect what we've got, lest someone take them from us. That could change if we could adopt a more socialist system, but I'll leave that discussion for another thread.

 

SO WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS!! you dont like what i have to say so you delete my posts? ahh pompus ass bull shit! i have not violated guidlines! i dont make personal attacks never have! look at any of my posts! now im upset! i think if this is the case you might need to be removed as a mod!

 

totaly unaceptable

 

Thats enteresting..

But....
It was chaos..
Granted if these people had been given better resources things wouldnt have been as bad..
But this city still would have been devistated..
The only thing that couldve been changed was preperation and more consern for the peolpe but once the government left it to become out of control it did. They put this entire city under marshall law..
It was litterally a war zone down there..
The media wasnt lieing..
If anything they didnt tell enough..
The only thing left to do was take there means of killing each other..
Even if the circumstances were not in there control .
This is how the people were handleing it...
They were being robbed ,women were literally being raped and left on the streets..
I ve said from the beginning I believe in the right to bare arms..
But not if people are going to have to live like that...
When you have to choose between no guns or getiing shot at down the street..
What do you do??
Ya know?

What would you do?

 

fuck it! here goes no one is saying that ther should not be efforts to do things to empower pepole to better their lives you keep saying over and over we dont think about social problems! i say to you! bullocks! we think of it every day! you think you got the answers? lets hear them! put your words were they belong and do not censore me again like that again! you said to me once that i did not want to debate! i see that you are incabable of debate put up or shut up! i agree with you that there are things that need to be implemented but deleating my posts is not the way to do that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

’ve been pointing out ‘threat/fear’ as control a mechanism for some time, savage Indians, the yellow peril, uppity blacks, seditious communists, evil drug pushers, crazed terrorists; they merge from one into another throughout US history. The politicians have used such fears to push there agenda or gain influence and pro-gunners have done the same, promoting the idea of the armed citizen, as the bulwark against such threats.

are you willing to look at your own history? i wanted to im you with a scenerio, but now you got me pissed off i wanted to keep it privat for resons you will probably never understand! and apparently the articals are to large so your getting off easy this time! but i will tell you i have thought about why crime exists in a way that you! will never understand! do i think guns will solve these problems?ABSOLUTLY NOT! do i think that there are things that can be done to address problems? ABSOLUTLY! but you puting words in outher pepoles mouth is certainly NOT he way to go about it! you have said that you dont advocate a complete gun ban, thats a LIE! you have and if i have to search through 1000snds of posts to prove it i will! you talk of threat/intimidation! i ask you how am i threatening or intimidating any one while im sleeoing in my own bed in my own house? if you come into my house in a threatening manner should i just say do you want tea and cakes? sorry honey, it aint hapinen! you gona invite the wolf in so he doesnt have to blow so hard?

 

now please tell me how you intend to implement your "holistic" approch while your protecting my childen in the meantime? i dont think i would trust you with my children for a second you aint got the balls to stand with your life!!!!!!!!!

 

Flm

I don’t have a clue as to what you’re talking about and you haven’t sent me any articles?

What posts are you talking about as far as I know I haven’t deleted any of your posts?

It is easy to say you think about anything, what I’ve been trying to find out is if some people are actually able to discuss such issues in a way that shows they have given it much thought.

 

Mellow

The problem with such ideas as personal responsibility is that it feeds back in to the whole individualistic approach to problem solving.

The idea that if only individuals did something everything would be ok – in this context – if the decent citizens had guns as individuals then criminals would be deterred from acting so therefore there is no need to think as a community about ways to reduce crime.

If the individual does it then there is less, or no, need for the community to do anything.

Which can lead to the viewpoint - I have a gun so why do I need to think about other ways of tackling crime.

**

The thing is that I would really like my theory to be knocked over, that’s not to say I’m not standing by it, what I mean is that if it couldn’t stand then the US system would seem to be in a lot better shape than I think it is if the theory does stand up.