2020 Election

Yes, it was a trip down memory lane. Busing is a policy from yesteryear that has been increasingly abandoned because, by many accounts, it caused more problems than it cured, contributing to: white flight to the suburbs, a boost in enrollment of private and parochial schools, and hardening of racial identities, without much evidence of measurable educational benefits. Parents, white and black, complained about the assault on neighborhood schools and having their kids shipped miles away to schools in strange neighborhoods, while prominent backers of the program sent their kids to private schools. Unfortunately, Harris and the commentators on CNN and MSNBC made the issue a litmus test for support of racial integration, and dismissed Biden's strong record of support for civil rights legislation because he opposed forced federally mandated busing. This might actually work to Biden's advantage, if voters remember why they didn't like nostalgia then.

 

Such a great point. Voters look at today's crack vs powder cocaine issue and instantly assume it's a legal statute brought about because of institutional racism. After all, crack was "associated" with black folks, Rap and ghettos (so was Jherri Curl, but it didn't make you steal your grandmother's TV). In the 80s crack was destroying black neighborhoods and the kingpin crack dealers shielded themselves with juvenile dealers and hired cops. When they did get arrested, they were back in business in a matter of hours.

Black leaders and clergy pleaded for extended sentences for crack dealers. It was pushed through with amazing speed. Among those who made it happen was Joe Biden.

So now, will the issue get twisted again for the sake of sabotaging Biden? Or will the truth of the situation finally be told?

 

They already do demonize socialism, and it hasn't hurt Bernie's odds at all. On the contrary, Bernie's anti-establishment bent may win him quite a few Republican votes. At the end of the day, Republican politicians do not represent their base, and Trump was elected as an anti-establishment candidate. If he hadn't been running against the very epitome of an establishment candidate, he might not even be in office right now.

And now all we care about is "Who can beat Trump?" Well, an establishment candidate, of course!

 

...

 

,,,

 

Poor poor little Kamala. Did she forget who Biden worked with for eight years? In the vetting process for choosing a veep did Obama overlook Biden's "racism". Give me a fucking break.

 

One thing that is forgotten is that you can propose all the progressive policies you want, but you need to have a congress that shares those views.
While I am hoping that the dems regain control of the senate, and retain their majority in the house, I am not sure that comes to pass.

 

Mirror much..

 

I'm not sure, it was a poll last week that had him up by 12 to trump and Biden up by 11. I'm not inclined to go digging for the poll over 1 percentage point lol, my point is more that there's no reason to assume Bernie cant beat Trump.

Here's a snapshot of several polls over several weeks for Biden versus Trump
RealClearPolitics - Election 2020 - General Election: Trump vs. Biden

And then Bernie versus Trump

RealClearPolitics - Election 2020 - General Election: Trump vs. Sanders

 

I dont know what this means

 

I found it interesting Biden's argument wasnt against bussing itself, but against the federal government's role in integration. A matter, he asserted, that should be left to local city council

Of course, anyone who has lived south of the Mason dixon understands that schools in the south were still segregated a decade or more, sometimes almost 2 decades after the Brown vs the Board of education ruling, precisely because of local government's inability to act

 

I'd have to listen to that exchange again, but it was my impression that the issue came up in the context of Harris's statement that she had been among the children bused in Berkeley. Biden drew a distinction between de jure segregation and de facto segregation. He said he supported busing to remedy the former kind, resulting from deliberate past policies of racial segregation as was the case south of Mason Dixon. could appropriately be remedied by court-ordered busing. The latter, resulting unintentionally from residential patterns, he said, could be addressed by busing, if local residents in communities like Berkeley wanted to do it that way, but he didn't think it was appropriate to use federally mandated busing in the case of de facto segregation, for reasons mentioned in Post #1061. It could be done, but as a policy matter he didn't think it should be done. I didn't hear him make some broad statement that racial integration should be left to the states, even on busing and certainly not on other matters pertaining to civil rights. Obviously, if it were, there would be no Civil Rights legislation, and no integration--which Biden supported. The point seems to have gone over the heads of Anderson Cooper, Chris Matthews and the other talking heads on CNN and MSNBC. Nuance isn't their forte. Biden has a 100% rating by the NAACP for his support of affirmative action. Joe Biden on Civil Rights

 

Good point !

 

Nope, they've all become shock jocks of a sort.

 

He definitely didnt say all of that, he had 30 seconds lol. But I admire your effort to attempt to say it for him

What he said regarding busing was

"I did not oppose busing in America. What I opposed is busing ordered by the Department of Education. That's what I opposed"

I dont think Joe Biden is a racist and I'm not trying to make a big deal out of nothing, the busing thing certainly doesn't effect my vote one way or another
But objectively speaking, his biggest weakness is his age and how out of touch he is with current culture...and taking a states' rights stance to desegregation(which is how it's going to come across to most people, despite your valiant attempt to nuance a 10 second sound bite), as well as his previous claim that a couple of white supremacists never called him "boy" (because duh Joe, why would they?),isnt a good look. These things arent damning, no one thinks he's a white supremacist for saying them, but it does make him look out of touch and old fashioned

 

You're right. He didn't say all that. Thirty seconds does limit one's ability to explain. But he did mention the de jure, de facto distinction, said that Harris's experience was a product of her local governmnent's decision, indicated that he was okay with that but was against federally mandated busing (by the Department of Education) to end de facto school segregation. I elaborated on what that means. What he didn't do is take "the states rights stance to desegregation"--only in the limited context of de facto busing. That's one of the big problems I have with televised debates. They emphasize sound bites and oversimplification, and people hear what they want to hear. I'm afraid I haven't seen much in the twenty candidates thus far to give me much confidence that any of them can take down Trump.

 

Is it possible he was saying the Department of Education didn't know what they were doing and it was a subsidiarity thing? Swann v the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Board of Education was 1971 and the DoEd was a new department created in the Carter Administration I think. Sort of like "Ah Johnny come lately, top-down, what do you know, Wilmington is burning down, leave us alone" or something was his position almost 50 years ago or something? There was no way to take it all apart in the format they had, of course, and I remember reading about Robert La Follette giving seven hour speeches when he ran for president in 1924, why cannot they have an eight hour debate with all 25, 36 or whatever candidates . . . no, just kidding, I know why: speed isn't over the counter . . .

 

A couple thoughts. I really don't think many people think Biden is a racist. He was just wrong about an issue in the 70's. The problem is how he approached it. First, he doesn't owe anybody an apology for working with racists in old-timey times. You have to make deals with all sorts of snakes in Washington. Second, he was wrong about bussing in the 70's. Say you've evolved on the issue rather then re-litigating some 70's shit.

His main problem was not being able to effectively parry that. He has a debate team. This has been in the news. He wasn't prepared for it to come up. He shoulda been.

Re-litigating 70's shit just brings my main point home. Biden, Sanders, & Trump. Too old to be president.

 

And there's the dilemma, cuz the younger candidates have things about them that are turnoffs to older voters, who tend to turn out on election day. Biden is gaffe prone--he earned that reputation. There's a reason why he never got past the primaries in his previous run for the presidency. I'm bracin' myslef for another five years under the Monster. Democrats remind me of lemmings headed for the edge of the cliff.

 

Isn't that where we are for all practical purposes ? It's the gottcha culture at it's best and is incredibly destructive, fits in well with our ( F-you ) society.

Now, sit back and watch as this slug fest erupts most likely turning bitter and divisive.

I disagree that either Biden , Sanders or Trump are too old to be president anymore than I can say someone else is too young.

In the end it's my hope that cooler heads prevail and we realize we're voting for policies , direction and leadership above all else.

Joe Biden is not a racist , has never been a racist , and had he been would President Barack Obama have selected him as Vice President of the United States?
We must learn to recognize BS when we see it and reject those willing to use it.