2020 Election

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Deleted member 42017, Jan 1, 2019.

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  1. No, but if you say these things coexist in harmony with your principles and then you don't stand by someone who says them, you are a coward in my opinion. We told the establishment in 2016 we weren't caving into the politics of fear (Bernie or Bust?) and we didn't. And Melial is right. Progressives are under no more obligation to vote for a centrist establishment candidate than centrists are to vote for a progressive. Don't centrists realize how arrogant they are to say otherwise? Like they just own the left. Well, they may own the Democratic party now, but that's not the left anymore, nor is it liberal.

    What I really suspect is that the Democrats who won't support progressives (such as Elizabeth Warren) are really just rich people who don't want to lose their grip on prestige and power, no different than the elitist Republicans. And it's every bit as pathetic to see ordinary Democrats pander to their establishment as it is to see Republicans pander to the likes of Trump.

    The reality is that there is a class divide in this country. That's the establishment people are sick of, Republicans and Democrats alike. We're actually all in the same boat. But the powers that be and the media just divide us and conquer us. Or they try to. They try to make us forget who the real enemy is. Which is every establishment Democrat and Republican. We've been at each other's throats for so many years now we see our neighbors as enemies.

    Donald is not "an extraordinary force." He was given plenty of assistance in 2016 with virtual round-the-clock coverage by CNN, MSNBC, and Fox. The Clinton campaign got caught bolstering him. Let's not forget that. Republicans just saw him as an anti-establishment maverick, and probably the majority of them still do. He doesn't play by the rules of the establishment. Meanwhile, the Democrats were given Clinton, who everyone tried to pass off as progressive, but the Bernie people weren't buying it. Contrary to popular belief, being a woman was something she had going for her in this situation. It would be progressive to have a woman president. But Hillary was in the pocket of Wall Street. There was no denying that.

    IT WAS AN ANTI-ESTABLISHMENT ELECTION AND THE ANTI-ESTABLISHMENT CANDIDATE WON. The next election SHOULD, God-willing, be an anti-establishment election, since the establishment is the antithesis of what it means to be a dignified human being. The anti-establishment candidate that won, however, is an utter buffoon, and provides the corporate media and the establishment with all the propaganda they need to install the next regime. Or so they think.

    We shall see in 2020. The real progressives need a leader. Many felt betrayed by Warren, and she isn't quite as motivational as Bernie was. But I would be willing to back her if nothing else. Hopefully Bernie will run again, though. Who else is there, really? People think we can just keep moving further to the center and be moderate, but just look at how few decent people there are left.
     
  2. Trump was elected by the silent majority of this country. the silent. the uncounted. the ignorant. the racist. the easily manipulated and thrown aside. they surfaced just long enough to cast their votes and slip back into their caves. they voted this unmade man into an office that has enabled him to spout, shout and spew daily propaganda and contradictions that are easily disqualified yet are not grounds for disqualification. This country has been in a Constitutional crisis for as long as President Trump has been in office —- maybe more. And, we have simply gotten used to it. News and politics has become entertainment with sponsors. We are now all just participants in Trump’s latest reality show.
     
  3. Nah. In 2016 everyone was fed up with the elite and what they are doing to this country. Trump was, however insane this may be, seen as one who was against that. He was going to stop sending jobs overseas. He was going to stop globalization. Etc. etc. That's what the entire MAGA thing is all about. Trump even used to say that he was the one who could overturn the oligarchy because he is the one who understands it. I can't remember the exact quote, something about having been on the other side.

    I personally don't think it's any coincidence that he plays right into their hands. Four years of Trump and everyone will forget all this anti-oligarchy nonsense. We'll all be itching for a stable, corporate sponsored Wall Street Democrat or Republican, right?

    Wrong, bitches. We're not as stupid as you think we are.
     
  4. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    Definitely, if the alternative were Trump.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
  5. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    Democrats aren't "just as bad" as Republicans. Republicans supporting Trump are far worse and dangerous to the country. Before that, it was GW who gave us two wars, torture, and the 2008 economic crash. You'd have to really try to be worse. And regardless of who it is, Republicans mean tax cuts for the rich, opposition to social programs and environmental protection, and borrow and spend Reagnomics. But if you think they're just as bad and don't vote as a result, you've signed on to a decade of Trump/Pence. If there's no difference, I guess you think that's okay.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
    scratcho and stormountainman like this.
  6. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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    LOL @ everyone gathering behind Biden. Mister "All good ideas come from government" Biden. He'll be 79 by the time 2020 rolls around.
     
  7. You guys really are just as bad. You're so arrogant. It's sickening. The fact that you've totally hijacked the Democratic party and therefore the left leaning peoples of this country. We have no choice but to vote for whichever establishment Democrat you all decide is "the one." And the sad part is that those Democrats have the same amount of respect for you and me as Trump does for his followers. I've also seen just as many simply vile personal attacks come from Democrats as Republicans.

    You really want to start listing all of the bad things our presidents since Carter have had a hand in? Or just what establishment politicians, Democrat and Republican alike, have had a hand in?

    So I sign on for a decade of Trump/Pence if...

    A. I don't vote.
    or
    B. I don't vote for your candidate.

    Sound about right? And you can't see why you're just as sickening to me as a Republican? You really can't?
     
  8. Oh, and guess who signed on for all of Bush's wars and guess who didn't.

    I'll give you a hint. The former's name starts with an H. and ends with a Clinton and the latter's name starts with B. and ends with a Sanders.
     
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  9. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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    Personally I think people who vote strictly for their preferred party (regardless the person running) are idiots.

    At one time, I thought I could align myself with the libertarian party at one point, but they keep on nominating authoritarian dolts like Bob Barr and Gary Johnson.
     
  10. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    Do you have anyone in mind? There may be some blue dog Democrats in Red or purple states who think like that, but these are a far smaller percentage of the Democrat Party than the Republicans.

    Yeah, those idealists who couldn't be soiled by voting for the Democrats opted instead for Gary (What is Aleppo?) Johnson and Jill Stein, memorable for her photo op in Moscow at the dinner table with Flynn and Putin after providing propaganda for the Ruskies by criticizing U.S. human rights. And so Trump/ Pence rules the day. If the Stein vote had gone for Clinton, she would have carried Michigan and Wisconsin, and if the Johnson vote would have gone for her, she would have won Pennsylvania and the election. And if the Sanders vote would have gone for her, she would have won comfortably. Would that have been a better? In a relative least of evils sense, I think so, although it would be a close call. I just came from a bull session with some progressive friends who were arguing Trump's election might have been good in the long run by breaking the grip of "business as usual" and leading to the "blue wave" that empowered Progressives. We'll see.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
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  11. I'minmyunderwear

    I'minmyunderwear Newbie

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    collectively, we're at least that stupid.
     
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  12. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    I think the character, experience and values of the candidate are more important than party affiliation. I admired Bush '41 and McCain, and hope Kasich has a future in the Republican Party. But the parties more than ever offer clear institutional alternatives that would be foolish to discount. We've come a long way from the Tweedle Dumb-Tweedle Dumber days of the fifties and sixties.
     
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  13. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    You makes your choices (or non-choices) and face the consequences. Trump/ Pence in 2020!
     
  14. Things would be no better under Hillary. She'd make fewer declarative statements, perhaps. Other than that, she wouldn't be pushing progressive ideals at all, because she doesn't get paid to do that. She'd just be selling out to the right day after day, further securing the grip that totalitarian oligarchy has on this country.

    I definitely prefer Trump to that kind of sickness. At least with Trump what you see is what you get.

    I think that's the first time I've ever seen you truly speak your mind.
     
  15. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    That convoluted logic got us Trump. How did that work out for your?
     
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  16. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    Actually, I was speaking yours.
     
  17. Edit. Sorry, when you said you were speaking my mind for me I wrote something mean back to you, but I don't want to hurt your feelings to I deleted it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2019
  18. ,,,
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2019
  19. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    I can take it, but thanks anyway.
     
  20. Meliai

    Meliai Banned

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    I would argue that anyone who accepts donations from the fossil fuel industry or the for profit insurance industry doesnt have any real interest in combating climate change or moving towards a Medicare for All system

    Interestingly enough, Beto O'Rourke accepted more donations from the fossil fuel industry than any other member of Congress except Ted Cruz.



    Oil & Gas: Top Recipients | OpenSecrets

    And a breakdown of donations accepted by Democrats from the insurance industry.

    Insurance | OpenSecrets
     
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