2020 Election

He would have made a clean getaway if he hadn’t removed his mask

 

Well, thankyou for committing, but that post speaks for itself, shows why it was so hard to get any of you to actually answer for months

What's the most important point out of all that?

Ventilators they didn't need, not pulling 100 million tests kits out of their ass in a month even though you ended up doing more testing than any other country by far, PPE supposedly (show me a single photo of a US health worker that didn't have PPE) and whatever other medical supplies is, toothpaste maybe

Lame man

Let's go through the rest:

1. The guy you have been calling a moron for the last three and a half years, you seem genuinely surprised he didn't get everything correct duh uh errr

2. How the fuck did he mislead the public when we all had the tallies of cases and deaths plastered across the nightly News and readily available on the net?

3. "holding rallies of unmasked people".....and no one got Covid from those rallies

4. Some rant about comparing it to the Korean war again for some reason

5. Woodward: no man, no one is all that surprised a President didn't want a mass panic, that's no revelation. No, history will not be talking about Trump's lost February, look up Wikipedia in 5 years and you will get an estimate of deaths in the US in 2020 of 30,000 (Covid only) to 250,000

6. Wearing bloody masks. No, you don't have to be a Trump supporter or listen to him to be able to do simple maths. Even at 99% effectiveness, 1% ineffectiveness. By the time you interact with 100 infected, there is one you interacted with where the mask was useless. Always going to be fairly useless if 90% of the infections are by way of contact surfaces

7. Wasn't a flop in Sweden, you just had 4 countries in the southern hemisphere that have bypassed them in the deaths per million pop. ranking

8. "Social Darwinism", not that the term itself is all that accurate, but that's what everyone is trying to fight; nature, evolution, pinning hopes on a magical vaccine, in essence a cure for the common cold since Sars-CoV-2 is a coronavirus. Under 40s at the moment have a negligible chance of dying of this thing. All a vaccine is going to do is lower the risk for 40 to 60 something's to the point where they don't give a shit about wearing masks or not going to the cinema. You will still get estimates of covid deaths in the US of 12,000 to 60,000 a year, almost exclusively amongst 70+ yr olds for the next century. Whether I have an opinion of the matter and how much that hurts your feelings doesn't change reality, what is most likely to happen

9. First recognised case was Nov. 17, 2019 in China, so in ten months, it's taken between 85,000 (Covid only) and 931,000 lives across the world. That figure speaks for itself

Lower estimate of the 1918 pandemic is 17 million deaths amongst a world population of 1.9 billion at the time over 2 years: 0.48% of the world's population a year

Translate that to 2020 and a world population of 7.8 billion, and 0.48% is 35 million

So Covid-19 in its first year is going to be 30 times less deadly that the 1918 H1N1 outbreak

 

Somebody might think that's an intelligent response. I've wasted enough time on you. You may comfort yourself that the estimate of lives lost to Covid , which is still ongoing, is less than the 1918 pandemic and that fatalities in World War I and the rest of our wars except World War II are trivial. Since you're an Aussie, you don't feel our pain. I think I've given sufficient evidence that Trump's response has been piss poor. So has Bob Woodward. Obviously, whatever anybody says will be spun out of shape to the advantage of the Dear Leader. What is the attraction? Is it sexual?

 

I actually think he digs it...

 

Sounds like you work for that orange moron.

 

Oh yes it was. Over 5,800 dead, most in a single year since the great famine of 1869. And Sweden's economy still fell by over 8 percent, despite keeping the country open. Biggest quarterly fall on record. Hardly a victory.

 

Not compared to UK -20%, US -31%

Big differences

And your 5,800 dead would have happened anyway

 

How would you know the 5,800? Do you think you're God now? Eventually, death catches up with all of us, but we don't have to rush it. Sweden's has a much smaller population than the U.S. What is its death toll on a per capita basis? And are we taking the U.S.and U.K. as a models? Sweden avoided a general lockdown, but did ban large public gatherings, closed high schools and universities, and urged social distancing in bars and restaurants.

 

No

What did Trump do personally? Name one economic policy or idea he has had that would stop anything.

All of the safety measures are things he has fought against. For example masks in public or not holding sporting events. He tweets about college football because it's an emotional issue and the part of the US that loves it the most is conservative small towns where the only fun thing is the games.

The right wing has done nothing. There are just a lot less of them than the left wing and the right wing has figured out they need to buy food so they need to wear a mark. What they can and will do is wear the mask to get in then take it off once out of sight of the security guard because they "are not sheep".

 

You mean at the very end of 8 years of Republican leadership when Obama was barley in office? Yes at that time the economy was very bad. It was part of the reason Obama won.

You seem to have the incorrect right wing idea that an economy can be fixed overnight.

 

The right wing can certainly screw up the economy overnight...

 

They seem to forget that the best economic years in recent memory were under Clinton. Then Bush came and deregulated everything. Obama is responsible for that on day one and by the end of his term has somewhat fixed everything. Trump rides those choices for a few years and now we are where we are. Even without a virus the economy would not be that good. The stock market would be but that's not the real economy.

It's hard to understand economics when you hate the idea of college. At best you get one semester of this kind of thing in high school and many conservatives don't even hang around until senior year to learn that. You can learn a trade at 15 or 16 and start making money so why go to an econ class?

 

It's not to hard to find death per million numbers on the net

Coronavirus Update (Live): 29,445,683 Cases and 932,744 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer



Also not that hard to find out on the net how many of those 5800 were in Nursing homes

 

Ah, the expendables. I see. From what I've been able to find out, more than 70% of the covid-19 deaths in Sweden are from elderly care patients.Why Sweden's COVID-19 Strategy Can't Work in the U.S. You seem to think think that's acceptable; I don't. Sweden has had the highest death rate per capita in Europe, nearly twice ours. There are recent signs of Swedish success: Sweden has 578 Covid-19 deaths per million, compared with our 578 deaths per million. Sweden Now Has a Lower COVID-19 Death Rate Than the US. Here’s Why It Matters | Jon Miltimore Of course New York also experienced dramatic success with its draconian approach to lockdowns. As I've said,Sweden avoided a general lockdown, but did ban large public gatherings, closed high schools and universities, and urged social distancing in bars and restaurants. When the authorities do that in Sweden people tend to listen and not show up at government offices with assault rifles sqawking about their "rights". And there are those elderly casualties, who some folks may still care about. As for the vaunted "herd immunity", a Swedish study found that just 7.3 percent of Stockholmers developed COVID-19 antibodies by late April.
Första resultaten från pågående undersökning av antikroppar för covid-19-virus — Folkhälsomyndigheten
Just 7.3% of Stockholm had Covid-19 antibodies by end of April, study shows
Sweden Coronavirus Herd Immunity Attempt Failing: Only 7.3% Of Population Have Antibodies Professor of Indectious Medicine Bjorn Olsen, of Uppsala University, thinks herd immunity ia a “dangerous and unrealistic” approach to dealing with COVID-19.“I think herd immunity is a long way off, if we ever reach it.”

 

Covid and Social Darwinism

Many on the right believe to one degree or another in the crack-pot ideas of Social Darwinism and it often underpins their general philosophy below is a quote from Herbert Spencer often called the grandfather of Social Darwinism and take note of the last line that I have bolded

It seems hard that a labourer incapacitated by sickness from competing with his stronger fellows should have to bear the resulting privations. It seems hard that widows and orphans should be left to struggle for life or death. Nevertheless, when regarded not separately, but in connection with the interests of universal humanity, these harsh fatalities are seen to be full of the highest beneficence…the same beneficence that brings to early graves the children of diseased parents, and singles out the low-spirited, the intemperate, and the debilitated as the victims of an epidemic. . .Herbert Spencer

Social Darwinism is based on the idea of there been superior and inferior people, the strong and the weak, the fit and the unfit – in the context of Covid 19 that means that it is the inferior who would die and the superior that wouldn’t and since in my experience nobody that believes in Social Darwinist ideas things of themselves as inferior then such people are likely to believe that as a superior they don’t need to take precautions, wear a face mask or social distance since they are not going to die or even get ill.

(And I’ve heard that for some Social Darwinists types that associate superior and inferior to race the fact that the virus seems to be effecting Black and Latinos peoples in higher numbers is a confirmation of their views).

There is also another aspect in this many Social Darwinists connect advantage with superiority and disadvantage with inferiority – and so it not surprising that the advantaged with these views who do actually believe they could get the virus nonetheless are still happy to push others back to work in crowded offices and factories as well as onto packaged public transport (things that they as the more advantaged they would not have to suffer).

I mean if you believe that the world would be a better place if there were less ‘inferior’ people in it then a high number of Covid deaths could be even be seen as something to celebrate.

 

Trouble is that if the "inferior people" include the old, as VG seems to think, we all become inferior eventually--including him. He's now middle aged--what, pushing 50? Tick, tick tick.

 

Charles Darwin never used the phrase "survival of the fittest" and thought the concept ran counter to the evolution of higher order mammals

Your lack of education is showing again

 

As of 14th September 2020

Covid and Covid associated deaths per million people

Belgium 856
Spain 638
UK 613
US 601
Italy 589
Sweden 579