2020 Election

Discussion in 'Politics' started by WritersPanic, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator


    History can give context

    Anyway to repeat the second part - For me it’s not about knowing what American right wingers believe you can get that by just watching Fox but why they believe them – what is the reasoning behind the belief – the best way of doing that is through honest debate. And over the last 19 odd years I’ve been trying to make this a place where political debate is possible and that has been hard because there are many who don’t want debate, I get the impression some even fear debate because it has a tendency to show up how weak there arguments are.
    scratcho likes this.
  2. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator


    And since 1950 and in the UK the right wing Conservative Party have been the dominant political force in Britain and many on the left see Blair’s New Labour as basically Tory light so even that period of governance was right leaning. Also the media in the UK is very right centric.

    It is 70 years from 1950 to 2020 – in that time I believe with a quick calculation Labour have been in government for 24 years and that includes 13 years of New Labour which as I said many left wing people think leaned to the right so if you excluded that it would be only 11 years of left wing government in 70 years the rest of the time it was been Tory lead governments I think you could say that means the Conservative Party have been the dominant political force in Britain sense 1950.

    As to the media les look at newspapers

    The largest selling national newspapers in the UK are

    The Sun – right wing

    Daily Mail – right wing

    Daily Mirror – left wing

    The Times – right wing

    The Daily Telegraph – right wing

    Daily Express – right wing

    The Sun and Times is owned by billionaire Rupert Murdoch

    The Daily Mail is owned by multi-millionaire Jonathan Harmsworth, 4th Viscount Rothermere

    The Telegraph is owned by the billionaire Barclay Brother
  3. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator


    To me in basic terms the economic model been followed mainly in the UK and US for the last 30-40 odd years is to one degree or another neoliberal capitalism

    LOL so your argument here seems to be that you think free-market neoliberal capitalism isn’t right wing? Can you explain why?
  4. Vladimir Illich

    Vladimir Illich Members

    Flagme15 and Balbus like this.
  5. Its the big hole in both your and Balbus's rants, Tony Blair was the father of PPPs in the UK, so no use either of you commenting on the US election
  6. Vladimir Illich

    Vladimir Illich Members

    What the F**k is that ???
  7. Seems you need to read your own posts
  8. Public Private Partnership

    I realize it wasnt dealt with in 5th grade when you left school, but there is a search engine called google you can type things like that in to find out the answer
  9. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator


    I have to concur with Vlad what are you on about - can you please clairify your arguement?
  10. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Sorry but you do realise that Public Private Partnerships are/were a neolbiralist type policy

  11. Are you also asking what a public private partenship is?
  12. You do know who Tony Blair is right?
  13. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    As Professor John Quiggin [an economist and an Australian Laureate Fellow in Economics at the University of Queensland] has put it - The PFI was introduced by the Conservative Government of John Major in 1992 and greatly expanded under Tony Blair’s New Labour Government. The PFI provides a financial framework for Public-Private Partnerships, which have their own acronym, PPPs.

    PPPs are the archetypal example of the soft neoliberalism represented by Blair’s "Third Way". Like the hard neoliberalism of Thatcher and Reagan, soft neoliberalism accepts the primacy of financial capital and the superiority of markets over governments.

    [edit] and this is one reason why many left wing people think Blair and New Labour leaned to the right
    Last edited: May 22, 2020 at 4:55 AM
    stormountainman likes this.
  14. Vladimir Illich

    Vladimir Illich Members

    [deleted by Balbus insult] - its not PPP, in the uk its PFI and no it wasn't started under Bliar, but began in 1992 under John Major's 'nasty party' regime.

    Private finance initiative - Wikipedia
    Last edited by a moderator: May 22, 2020 at 5:15 AM
    stormountainman likes this.
  15. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Vlad sorry for the edit but can you please refrain from such insults, i understand the heat of the moment commemt but can you please take care.
    Last edited: May 22, 2020 at 5:24 AM
    stormountainman likes this.
  16. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator


    Sorry but I’ve been arguing against such neoliberal financial mechanism like PFI’s and PPP’s for years to then ask me to go look it up on google when you clearly had not done so yourself is frankly hilarious.

    If you want to know more about the subject you could start with – The Captive State: The Corporate Takeover of Britain by George Monbiot, here is a short review

    Review: Captive State: the Corporate Takeover of Britain by George Monbiot

    It was first published in 2000 but gives a good starting point for a back ground of the subject and the situation actually got worse than described in the book.
    stormountainman likes this.
  17. Those two paragraphs in particular I felt mainly applied to you

    As usual, the same circular argument, the same old tactics, start off with a statement that is false, then deflect with an off topic reference....on this occasion a book written by a guy with a degree in zoology of all things???

    Tony Blair, leader of your countrys less conservative / more liberal; labour party was the one most guilty of taking a sledgehammer to public ownership

    He is always going to be that big gaping hole in your assertions that neo-liberalism ( a phrase I have pointed out to you a thousand times is in itself too vague) is right wing

    So back to that first quote in this reply, If you are not willing to debate in any reasonable rational way, maybe edit yourself

    Referencing a book you yourself didn't probably even read with out any context is not debating. Why the hell does the book title alone tell us about Tony Blair

    Tony Blair and "New Labour" since it obviously wasn't just conservatives in your country that sold off public assets, why on earth are you and Vlad commenting on the US election in regards to that?

    Shake my head, a guy with a zoology degree
  18. Tishomingo

    Tishomingo Members

    Are you going to remind us, or keep us guessing?
    So your point is that a person who graduated from Oxford with a degree in zoology can't possibly know what he's talking about on matters of politics after spending much of his life as an investigative journalist and political activist? He put the zoology degree to good use as an environmentalist, and that brought him up against the political obstacles to sensible environmental policy. The book was critically acclaimed, but what do they know?
    And what's your degree in? Tree climbing?
    Last edited: May 22, 2020 at 10:30 AM
  19. stormountainman

    stormountainman Soy Un Truckero

    I was thinking his degree was in nose picking.
    Tishomingo likes this.

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