2020 Election

Yes If Joe Biden's favorability rating ever got as low as Hillary Clinton's.

In a 2016 poll Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot, were hated less than Hillary. ....lol...and she still won the popular vote.

 

Please don't say that, HFs will always be around.

 

I don't think so.
Oxford Economics | The leader in global forecasting and quantitative analysis
How Biden wallops Trump
Trump will lose popular vote again, election model predicts

This from Fox, re the latest Quinnipiac poll:
Biden widens national lead over Trump in new poll

 

You're leaving, damn.

An eleven point lead. I think it's more important to see what happens in the once red states, that are turning purple, and possibly. Trump may have a hard time winning Arizona given the changing demographic of young tech workers(i.e. Liberals) moving into the state. Add to that retirees(liberal) from California, Oregon, and Washington, and don't forget the Hispanic vote.

 

Well, one actually needs more than 3 people to react with to bother

And remind us all what OE said about 2016

 

I say Wisconsin will go blue.

 

They won't. They probably should debate for their own benefit, but in a free society, they should not be required to.

You're free to call someone out for the deficiencies of their arguments. That doesn't mean that opposing views should be censored. If someone is in control of judging what has held up to rational scrutiny, and what ideas are "dangerous", they can censor anything.

 

Anecdotes about you personal experience at an unusual historical moment nearly 20 years ago are hardly a basis for judging the political climate of contemporary online forums

 

Anyhoo, the funny part is we now seem to have more right wing members than lefties

 

If you had just said "free-market capitalism has been the dominant economic model in the US and the UK for the past 30-40 years", I might not have questioned your statement, regardless of what criticisms of it might exist. This is also different from saying right wing views have a dominant place in public debate.

You're simply making declarations here, rather than providing evidence for them

If you meant to say that capitalism is the dominant power, why did you use the term "right wing"? You should withdraw the statement you made earlier, because it does not hold up to scrutiny.

 

Two parties they moving into the same direction..
Destruction..

 

Why don't you remind us? I don't know what, if anything, they said about 2016. Last fall, OE projected a five-point win for Trump based on its projections of what the economy would be like next fall. That. of course, had to be revised on the basis of the crash accompanying the Covid-19 lock down. OE doesn't claim to be psychic. What it said in its latest prediction is that based on current data for unemployment, disposable income and inflation, Trump is likely to lose to Biden in 2020 because of a sharp economic contraction in swing states. Do you think that estimation is likely to be incorrect? As James Carville used to say, "it's the economy, stupid!" One major difference between 2016 and 2020 is that we now have nearly four years of Trump in action to look at, and the results aren't pretty: a botched response to the pandemic and a recession surpassing 2008. If Trump turns those around, he'll deserve a second term. So far, that seems unlikely.

 

It occurs to me that although the economy is going to be/is hard hit by the pandemic, people who would have voted for Donald Trump in the 2020 election likely will not blame or hold it against him. In fact, I suspect it causes them to have sympathy for a circumstance that makes him look bad.

In earnest, I feel like there isn't much that can really be done at this point. I went to Starbucks today and they've opened one of their cafe's in my area to the public. There is still tape on the floor directing people where to stand and they aren't suggesting that anyone sit, but just the other day the weren't letting anyone in. And I honestly don't feel totally safe going in. This is one of those situations where because of schizophrenia it's like trying to see in fog. The visibility is shit, or rather I can't tell if I'm being rational or not. But I don't want to go inside.

And if they open everything for business I'm sure many will die. I just saw a statistic that says although the United States accounts for 4% of the global population they make up 30% of the world's coronavirus deaths.

All that bodes poorly for the economy, but I don't know how people will relate it to the President. Even though his pandemic response has been underwhelming (to put it very mildly) I think folks will try to elect him anyway.

 

Some folks. The polls consistently show that about 43%-45% of adult voting age Americans support Trump thru thick and thin, and that a majority of Americans (52-55%) oppose him--such is the polarization of our country. That pattern has been remarkably stable throughout the Trump presidency, indicating that Trump is relatively unpopular. Fatalistic feelings that he will probably win again seem to be based on his upset victory in 2016, leading to the sense that he is some sort of mystical force, or man of destiny. And a memory lapse concerning the perfect storm that defeated Hillary: wikileaks, Pizzagate, the Comey memo, etc., plus widespread disgust over the same-old, same-old "establishment" dominated politics, and the misperception that Trump would bring a needed change. Even with a strong economy, Trump hasn't been popular. Now the economy has taken a disastrous turn, and his response to it has been Hoover-like. He may win a second term, but the simpletons who bring that about fully deserve the maelstrom they will unleash.

 

The terms "right" and "left" originated in the context of the French National Assembly during the eighteenth century, when "right" meant the monarchy, clergy and aristocracy, and "left' meant their opponents. Since those classes never held power in the United States, we've adapted the terms to fit a different political context in which the "establishment" has always consisted of wealthy bourgeois commoners: merchants, bankers, prosperous farmers and large landowners. What makes a blue collar worker, small farmer, small businessman, or petit bourgeois shopkeeper who opposes immigrants, Jews, and racial minorities and wears a MAGA hat "right wing"? Attitudes toward equality are key. The "right wing" categories just described have in common a rejection of egalitarianism, at least as it applies to out groups. They need an "other" to reject and look down upon, and are characterized by a high degree of status insecurity. This makes them natural allies of the conservative wealthy elite who benefit from an alliance based on ethnicity instead of class. The left wingers tend to emphasize class consciousness and oppose privilege.

Then we get into the complexities of whether or not the Democrats and Hillary are left or right. It's all relative. Relative to the Republican Party, the Democrats are center-left, but relative to the progressive or socialist wing of the party, they are center or even right wing. Bill Clinton even hired a Republican strategist, sleazeball Dick Morris, to develop his policy of "triangulation"--deliberately positioning himself between the Republicans and the progressive wing of his party to appeal to Middle American, where the votes are, and Hillary basically continued the strategy. By aligning themselves with the neo-liberals of the corporate world and embracing globalization, the Clintons and Obama pursued policies friendly to free-market capitalism. Balbus, I think, regards that as "right wing". By embracing a populist, ethno-nationalist stance, Trump was able to attract votes from blue collar elements who felt alienated from the globalist kleptocracy. Little did they know that they had fallen for a world class con man who offered the bait and switch of tax reform benefiting mainly the wealthy. In terms of political labels, Trump comes closest to "Fascist" in his emphasis on personalism, ethno-nationalism, authoritarianism, and contempt for democracy and the rule of law.

 

Don't overthink it, and btw, boycott starbucks.

 

newbie

But without debate and questioning how do they know if their views are right or wrong?

So you are basically saying you are totally opposed to idea of education – nobody should be required to learn anything so all schools should close and qualification requirements for any type of work should be dropped, well I’m hoping that not what you mean but can you explain your thinking?

Democracy cannot succeed unless those who express their choice are prepared to choose wisely. The real safeguard of democracy, therefore, is education – Franklin D Roosevelt

I’m with FDR how can ignorant and uneducated people make wise choices?

As I said it seems to be very important to highlight deficient ideas because in politics holding views that do not stand up to rational scrutiny can be detrimental to a society even dangerous.

But in a place where debate is asked for should someone be allowed to breach of the rules and post repeatedly things they are not willing to debate in any rational or reasonable way?

People can post their ideas and so those ideas are aired – but if they are not willing to debate those idea even when asked and carry on just posting the same idea over and over then they can find themselves censored.

If someone shouts fire in a crowded theatre they might get away with claiming they were mistaken once but if they then do on to do it again and again t think they would face consequences.

 

Newbie

History can give context

Anyway to repeat the second part - For me it’s not about knowing what American right wingers believe you can get that by just watching Fox but why they believe them – what is the reasoning behind the belief – the best way of doing that is through honest debate. And over the last 19 odd years I’ve been trying to make this a place where political debate is possible and that has been hard because there are many who don’t want debate, I get the impression some even fear debate because it has a tendency to show up how weak there arguments are.

 

Newbie

And since 1950 and in the UK the right wing Conservative Party have been the dominant political force in Britain and many on the left see Blair’s New Labour as basically Tory light so even that period of governance was right leaning. Also the media in the UK is very right centric.

It is 70 years from 1950 to 2020 – in that time I believe with a quick calculation Labour have been in government for 24 years and that includes 13 years of New Labour which as I said many left wing people think leaned to the right so if you excluded that it would be only 11 years of left wing government in 70 years the rest of the time it was been Tory lead governments I think you could say that means the Conservative Party have been the dominant political force in Britain sense 1950.

As to the media les look at newspapers

The largest selling national newspapers in the UK are

The Sun – right wing

Daily Mail – right wing

Daily Mirror – left wing

The Times – right wing

The Daily Telegraph – right wing

Daily Express – right wing

The Sun and Times is owned by billionaire Rupert Murdoch

The Daily Mail is owned by multi-millionaire Jonathan Harmsworth, 4th Viscount Rothermere

The Telegraph is owned by the billionaire Barclay Brother

 

Newbie

To me in basic terms the economic model been followed mainly in the UK and US for the last 30-40 odd years is to one degree or another neoliberal capitalism

LOL so your argument here seems to be that you think free-market neoliberal capitalism isn’t right wing? Can you explain why?