2020 Election

Purists helped get us the Prez we have. If you like that, keep it up, and we can have another six years of him before Pence takes over.

 

Pretty good summation. No matter how much you try and explain the built up hatred towards the country the Dims fostered that Trump tapped into, they simply choose to blame it on those that didn't vote for Hillary.

I had hopes Obama would bring about real change in the party. Those hopes waned for me at about year 2-3 of his administration.

I did like his effort to reform healthcare. I just didn't like how he chose to eff over America to get it.

Biden has the smell of Obama on him already. And with current Me To efforts, his history of groping will haunt him. Then you have the complete infusion of the new blood coming in. They will do to the Dim party what the T-Party candidates did to the Republican party.

But the Dims will spend 4 more years blame shifting the loss everywhere else but themselves.

I didn't vote for Trump. And I hope to hell he isn't my only choice as a Rep candidate. But as bad as he is, he seems better than anything the Dims can manage.

 

You say this as if it's impossible for a forward thinking, inspiring, progressive leader to ever have a chance at winning the democratic nomination for presidency, as if the only two options are an uninspiring Democratic centrist everyone feels really lukewarm about, or Trump and Pence

That's a sad indictment of the Democratic party in and of itself really

 

It would be history repeating itself. Just as Bush followed Reagan, on political momentum. And like Bush, Pence lacks the charisma to win a second term. Personally though, I don't think Pence can win a first term in the wake of Trump. It's like comparing Wheel of Fortune with Match Game (if anyone remembers how that even worked).

In the past democrats have maintained disconnected kingdoms all over the US. They historically came together to push a fellow democrat into a new or higher office almost without question. Especially in the presidential race. After watching Clinton make a fool out of Bush 1 and then watching Obama make a fool out of McManchurian, I have complete faith in the democrats finding a means of cohesion.

However, I don't have much faith in their chances for 2020. Particularly if the Clintons roll back to town. Biden is GHW Bushs democrat doppleganger, not a winning horse. Beto is a waterboy. Bernie, who I liked while Trump was abusing the GOP, is long in the tooth and saying odd things like great grandma Nan has been doing. What the democrats need is an experienced player with a good track record. Squeezing in a "popular" character like Obama can't be repeated while waves of his influence continue to waft about. Maybe a generational effort at best.

The next democrat president will win middle America with a proven history of solving their problems. The same candidate will be smart enough to stay out of the way of coastal democrats when it comes to how they score a buck and run their cities. And I think this democrat won't bend to the press or the entertainment industry opinions about reality. This person won't be running to be "liked", and that's what will carry the effort through.

On a side note, I think Ocasio-Cortez should aim for getting reelected to her current position a few times before aiming for the top seat. She has the time and energy for just that sort of performance in building a solid, unquestionable political career. As I said before, corporate-style leap-frogging isn't normal in politics, it's anomalous.

 

I'm liking you more and more.

Obama was an anomaly. He convinced enough voters that his time and place had come. And I do miss his personal presence as far as his public presence. But he was a rookie politician and a pretty smooth con artist as nobody dare call him out. He had the immune skin color for criticism, and he used it to great advantage.

Cortez has to survive until 35 before she can run for president. That's a long way off for her in terms of political patience.

 

Right, another automatic aspect to the system. It keeps children out of the top seat. However, it also limits 3rd party formation in any meaningful way.

 

You're going to be VERY surprised at the changes democrats want and will attempt. Any real change that has happened that benefits working people, has always been done by democrats. The litany is available for those who care to compare voting records over the past 75 years. And frankly, I don't think trump will last for the next two years, let alone get re elected. This whole deal is certainly different and exciting in many ways. Not for those missing their checks, I would guess.

 

I certainly think it's possible for such a person to win the nomination, and possibly even the election. Unfortunately, we take our candidates as we find them, and many forward thinking, inspiring, progressive leaders may not inspire the electorate. I thought Obama was such a candidate, and apparently so did enough of the electorate that he won two terms. But it's obvious that not everybody on this forum or in the country at large agrees. If the Democrats put up a candidate that excites the progressive base but turns off the rest of the voters, they will lose. I think Elizabeth Warren is the kind of person who the Republicans are praying will be the Democrat candidate. Put her up, and it's another decade of Trump-Pence. Who is a better choice? Beats me. I don't like Byden, never have. And Beto strikes me as unseasoned. But if they poll better than Trump, I'd go with them.

 

Oh Jesus Christ.

 

So what you're basically telling us is that you are the average Democrat voter and you refuse to vote based on principal. Man, fuck Democrats. They're as bad as Republicans. Bunch of cowards.

 

We''l see about that. Take a coward to propose single pay which would rid us of insurance companies and their stockholders? Take a coward to rein in the banks and re-institute some rules to keep them from repeating the crooked shit that they do/have done? Take some cowards to fulfill the duties of the government in replacing our diplomatic corps? There are plenty of cowards that will immediately get back in touch with the world in a serious manner,especially those countries that have been--repeat have been- our allies through wartime and peace time. And frankly, I like a woman that has the guts to call trump a motherfucker. That's the least of what he should be called. " Ï came on to that bitch strong and she was married."

 

Though
I find Elizabeth Warren fearless
I don’t find her electable
Especially,in the shadow of Hillary’s scuttling
There is a general misogyny in the country
Not as pronounced as our racism
But, more powerful than any other prejudice
The only way for anyone to get elected
Has nothing to do with party
It has everything to do with manipulating the election process
Much like the orange one did

 

Wouldnt your same logic apply though? If centrists refused to vote for a progressive wouldnt it then be their fault for getting Trump elected?

 

But I think what he's saying is that some members of the establishment wing of the Democratic party dont really want these things..they dont want medicare for all because they receive donations from the jnsurance industry, they don't want a green new deal because they receive donations from the fossil fuel industry, they dont want bank regulations because...you get the idea

And then there are voters who still think these corporate centrists are the best bet the Democratic party has, which I dont really understand at all. I wouldnt call it cowardly, just misguided.

 

He played it like a fiddle. First against the republicans, then against the democrats. He also added weird dynamics that the establishment was not prepared to handle. I bet he paid a lot of money for a lot of dirt.

In reality, Trump is exactly what I'd expect after watching Obama pull it off twice. But that first time was the real peach. Hillary was clearly more qualified, but the party caved to the novelty aspects of artificially "making history" (as opposed to letting it happen organically).

Hillarity could try for 2020, but I'm sure the jokes have already been written by the Trump team. I hope the pants suits get thicker. It reminds me of David Byrne from the Talking Heads. The chairman Mao look really doesn't suit her.

 

My way of thinking, C-span or the mainstream TV stations should be forced to carry all debates to get money out of it. The days of legislators being bought and paid for ,needs to end. Citizens United needs gone. There is too much damn money/influence the way it is. Gerrymandering needs gone by both parties. And elections should be 2 days and those 2 days should be national holidays so that all that are eligible to vote --can vote. And of course--rid ourselves of the outdated way of electing our presidents. Most votes win!

Had to come back and ---NO HILLARY CLINTON!! Do what GW did and stay out of the news.

 

And I truly hope that some 3rd party bullshit does not arise again to take votes away from the Dems.

 

The checks and balances of the Constitution never saw such an egotistical juggernaut as Trump coming —- normalcy would have enabled normal corrective measures; either self-imposed or externally applied to be enough —- but, the Donald is an extraordinary force to be dealt with —- with neither party or governmental branch having the cahonas to try to keep him in the ring

 

You have an excellent point, the political class in general was woefully unprepared for Trump. He cut his teeth on underhanded tricks and diversions to break deals while swooping down on the other side to make deals with the parts that survive the fall.

In this case, neither side was more a winner than the other in the long run. They've been swapping sides in an almost mechanized way for a long time. So while the political elite is engaged in the sort of strategies I'd expect from Emily Post, Trump is applying what I'd expect of a newsboy defending his corner in the 30s.

While the rest of Washington is lining up for caviar and whispered innuendos, Trump has a hot dog and a bullhorn. And I really don't see them finding a Henry Higgins to bail them out with Trump, the GOP is stuck with him.

The democrats need a better game for 2020. They can't survive if pointing out Trump's obvious shit is their primary card. Better to highlight what they are doing in spite of everything. The dull drudgery that pays off in decades.

I also think Linda Sarsour looks like Kilroy.

 

What I find both ironic and unfortunate
Is that the candidates that have the biggest balls for the Democratic Party are women