2020 Election

Hear hear. Democrats dont gain anything out of attempting to reach across the aisle and compromise with Republicans, because Republicans do not compromise.

 

Seeing everything in black and white seems problematic.

Cambodia and Republic of Georgia both have sweetheart deals for US immigrants. Show up with a few bucks, and they'll stamp your work visa for a year.

 

The civil war broke out because the south demanded everything in the world you can possibly imagine for over half a century, until the north decided it was cheaper and easier just to stomp on the bastards. Seriously, the bastards even demanded their slaves count as partial votes, because trusting people and dealing in good faith are not valued among slavers. They had their southern gentile culture, that would whip you to death in a heartbeat. The Master Race is now rapidly declining in numbers and freaking out about the country being taken over by blacks and Latinos, because whites prefer to work themselves to death and spend all their money indulging themselves. Comparing American politics to the Mafia is merely romanticizing the worst Three Stooges slapstick imaginable.

Know thy enemy, know the fucking statistics on how often these assholes rape their own women, beat their children, commit suicide, and white collar crime and it suddenly becomes clear that voting in good faith is never going to happen.

 

If left leaning american voters or politically active Democrats won't work together with the other half of the country for whatever reason then that's a big part of the problem.

But fuck these 2 parties anyway.

 

It's the other way around though. Democrats have spent years working with Republicans and not getting anything out of the compromise...which isnt even a compromise as a compromise involves both parties getting something out of the deal

This is the reason the country has slid so far right

 

I don't think the electorate can put someone into office who isn't reaching to meet the center (no, not the right) though. In my heart of hearts, I want to see social programming - funded by increased taxes - available for all. I want infrastructure to function. All of these things. I still would like to feel that we are safe from our foes too, in terms of military; though sometimes it seems like a security blanket (is it a false sense of security?). It all costs. Fiscal responsibility is important to me. It seems like we are climbing and climbing in terms of debt. Why can't Americans help out? Well, because they're barely getting by as it is for some. Well what about the rest who have some room? They can help those who go without. I want to see action!

But my initial point, beside what I want, is that I don't think Americans can let go of the past (in terms of democrats voting center/moderate). They're more ready now to vote left than ever before, but I don't think it's going to happen this time around. In my honest opinion, the best thing we can hope for is a centrist who is willing to embrace policies from the left. Not a leftist who will be backpedaling on promises to meet up with Congress in the middle, or right of middle.

 

For most things, this is objectively true.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-republican-party-has-changed-dramatically-since-george-h-w-bush-ran-it

Now we're re-litigating Roe V. Wade.

Alabama Senate passes near-total abortion ban - CNNPolitics

Also, why is versus shortened to V. in court cases, but everywhere else it's vs?

 

wonderful point! Why is it not Roe VS Wade? In Poli Sci it was stated "Roe V. Wade" ad nauseum.

 

They are spending a billion dollars on every election, and have yet to figure out how to bribe the electorate.

 

Dont get me started

Good question!

 

But one of the reasons its so polarized is because citizens also think like this.

And you are arguing for going the same road as those republicans basically because of the 'they started it' argumentation. They may have indeed, but not (willing to) working together with the part of the country that has an opposite mindset on many things is problematic.
I'm not concerned about what Democrats gain or lose. They should be left behind for some real progressive change on the long run.

edit: This is why I said in the Mueller investigation thread:

If every uninformed and hopeless citizen would vote on a third party that matches their outlook closest an enormous signal would be given already. I agree this seems unlikely as hopeless american citizens rather not vote at all or insist on keeping the political status quo.

Yes, it won't change things on the short term. But nothing will change on the short term (except perhaps an extreme solution, which likely also would bring extreme and unnuanced change). America needs to make some significant changes in order to serve their citizens. It was able to make these changes in the past and it can do it again. Uninformed and apathetic people (we can't change anything ourselves...It's better to keep the status quo then risk losing more, etc.) are a big obstruction.

 

Democrats helping to gerrymander the entire electorate and dismantle all the limitations on lobbying and advertising, while building the largest prison system in history and suspending our constitutional rights indefinitely, is not merely them "compromising". The only reason anyone calls them democrats anymore is because they actually still have a few liberals. Even old school republicans are now an extinct species. For the democrats to compromise any more they would have to bend over and grease their asses on public television while Big Bird watches.

 

I'm not arguing anything like that. I'm arguing exactly what you said at the end there - that Democrats need to grow some balls and fight for real progressive change instead of trying to appease Republicans. Not out of spite for the other party, but because thats what their voters want them to do and because this country's character is changing and this country will be lost soon if someone isnt willing to stand up and fight for it

 

edited to add some stuff to that post btw

I don't think the Democrats will do that. They would at best fake doing that or only try it on the short term, but on the long term will act like the same sack of shit that got you guys this rigid two party system and status quo. If a significant amount of citizens want and care about constructive political cooperation they should create other options.

 

Asmo

But is that mindset a rational mindset, again I ask what ‘good’ policies are the Republicans promoting?

I’m for compromise if what you are compromising toward makes sense otherwise it is just appeasement.

Say you have a headache and someone, let call him Mister X, says he can cure it.

Mister X takes you to a room in which in the centre is a caged lion and tells you to place your head in the lion’s mouth

You ask if Mister X can give a rational and reasonable argument for doing that and they reply that they don’t need to because it’s obviously a good idea.

You say that given the nature of the animal it being a large meat eater and that by the way it seems to be very hungry that you think the most likely outcome of putting your head in its mouth is that it would bite it off.

Mister X says that your ideas are just based on your anti-lion prejudices and say’s you are an idiot for not following their advice.

Now do you put your head in the lion’s mouth?

How about a compromise says Mister X – you don’t put your head the hungry lions, but instead you should just put your hand in its mouth and see what happens?

To me a bad idea is a bad idea.

And if even the supporters of an idea cannot defend it from criticism in any rational or reasonable way then it is likely a bad idea.

Thing is can the current right wingers actually defend their ideas from criticism in any rational way, I’m finding it very difficult to find any that can.

 

It doesn't fucking matter what happens to the democrats, because if voter turnout went any lower the democrats would have to change their name to autocrats.

 

the reason the country has slid so far to the right is because politicians have brought the fear of the minorities, fear of the war on christianity, the fear of progressive ideas to the forefront.
Although I supported Obama, I am beginning to think that the backlash of electing a black is what got trump elected.
The country wasn't ready to elect a black, and it isn't ready to elect a woman.

something we agree on. fuck alabama, fuck georgia.

 

I hope I don't sound stupid, but... I liked Obama being half African-American. It served many a purpose, but I think most of all it served to remind us that prejudice will not win. I think the hearts and minds of the voters were united on that; backlash be damned.

Also, I think Donald Trump got elected not out of a deep seated racism in the heart of Americans (though I'm sure that exists in plenty) but really more from being a celebrity. It reminds me of when California elected Arnold Schwarzenegger governor. He was republican, but he was famous and running for governor. People thought it would be cute to have a celebrity governor. Well, I was young back then and didn't follow any of his policy or rhetoric, but the impression I get is that he didn't do a bad job. Trump is doing one though, in my honest opinion. Most recently with the tariffs on China; though honestly I don't know what I would do about it if I saw that China was shafting the USA on trade and I were president.

 

. This is not something that actually happened, or it's at least not clear what you're talking about. Your statement is mostly hyperbole, and too vague to have much meaning if we try to figure out what you're saying. What exactly do you mean "Democrats helping to gerrymander the entire electorate" Gerrymandering has been going on long before there was a Democrat party (the name originating in 1812, when Gov. Gerry of Mass., a Democratic-Republican, signed into law a bill that drew boundaries for senatorial districts in a manner that gave his party an advantage). Both parties have been doing this since.In recent decades, the courts have imposed restrictions to prevent racial discrimination, but have basically upheld the practice. Putting a stop to it would require a constitutional amendment that would fundamentally alter our system by curtailing the role of state legislatures in drawing electoral boundaries or switching to some kind of proportional representation system, which is drastic and unlikely to command the needed two-thirds of congress, three-quarters of states needed for amendments. The practice has been made more effective since the advent of computers, enabling fine tuning to maximize party advantage, so is your gripe technology?. What specifically did Democrats do wrong here, and how do you think they should correct it? And "dismantle all the limitations on lobbying and advertising"? What limitations on lobbying and advertising have been "dismantled"? Both are protected speech under the First Amendment, but are more regulated now than they once were. And "suspending our constitutional rights indefinitely"? When did that happen? What rights?

 

Pick up any college political science textbook, open it to the chapters on public opinion, voting and elections, and it will tell you that opinionwise, moderates still make up the largest chunk of the electorate, elections are won by swing states, and that in presidential elections, successful candidates typically have to do a two-step in which they first bow to the ideologues who dominate the primaries and then move to the center to attract the majority of independent voters. Last election was a little different, because of the perfect storm that sunk ship Hillary, enabling Trump to win as a minority candidate who did and still does appeal to a sizeable minority base through demagogic messages. In such an environment, Democrats have to pick their fights and issues carefully. For example, when one candidate says "I'm for Socialism" (when he really isn't) or "felons should be given the vote", that's a turnoff to moderate voters. In order to get progressive programs passed, a candidate first has to get elected. I certainly agree that our country is on the verge of going down the tubes, and we need to get a grip before it's too late. That will require care in articulating and appealing to bedrock American values. Obama was good at that. I'm not sure anybody in the current herd of candidates is, but it's still early and we'll see. The abortion fight, the trade wars, the sound of war drums in the distance, and the outright defiance of normal efforts at congressional oversight by Republicans who cave us the Whitewater and Benghazi hearings, suggest some priorities.