“Yes we can”…but we can what?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Balbus, Nov 20, 2008.

  1. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    First I have to admit I cheered at Obama’s victory.

    A year ago I thought it impossible, and I was still sceptical right up to September of this year when the financial crisis really blow up and the economy began to eclipse all other issues, it was then that I began to hope. The Republican/free market house of cards began to topple and McCain made a dick of himself on a mercy dash to Washington.

    So I began to think about and talk with friends on what might come next…

    **

    Well first up I think it has to be better than the Bush admin and its controlling influence the neo-con ideological fantasist.

    And secondly I think it too early to begin a discussion on policy, because I’m not sure they actually know themselves beyond some vague ideas and rhetorical posturing. The devil (or god) is in the detail they say and so far we haven’t got any.

    This leaves general impressions and feelings.

    Obama is a good orator and in a campaign there are certain forms and buttons that are pressed to make the right impression. The problem for me is that many of these forms are in fact some of the things I think are problems with the American outlook. For example from both all the major political blocks there is an insistence on American exceptionalism even of the US’s manifest destiny,

    For example, this from a Obama speech “This is our moment. This is our time to unite in common purpose, to make this century the next American century. Because when Americans come together, there is no destiny too difficult or too distant for us to reach”

    Now remember the neo-cons talked of stamping US domination onto the 21st century. They seemed to have dreams of doing it by tapping into the US’s supposed industrial-military dominance and others supposed weaknesses, and it wasn’t that surprising those hubristic fantasies didn’t work out very well.

    On the other hand Obama seems to be talking of ‘re-imposing’ US domination by exploiting the untapped potential of the American people, through educational and financial investment.

    The method is far better but it is the goal that has me wondering.

    Rather than working toward another American century wouldn’t it be better to be working for a better world for everyone?

    Take the three things he claimed are the major issues to be tackled – the economy, global warming and war.

    All are basically global issues not purely American ones and would be best dealt with through multinational agreements and actions (even ones that might not be in the US’s short term interests).

    But if the Obama administration only sees such issues in US-centric terms then they are going to make the same mistakes as past US administrations.

    The problem is that far too often the idea of exceptionalism has turned to exclusivity, the feeling that one’s own interests are vastly more important than anyone else’s.

    If the US tries to pursue its own agenda and push it upon the world we are going to be back with the same problems whoever more nicely and softly that agenda might be pursued and push by the Obama camp.

     
  2. maryjohn

    maryjohn Senior Member

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    American exceptionalism has two very different sides to it. As a result of our actions, it is something to strive after. As a justification for our actions, it represents our worst qualities. You are conflating these two.

    I think you make the common mistake of seeing one man work with tools produce a chair, and then assuming the tools make the chair, and anyone using those tools must be building a chair.
     
  3. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    American exceptionalism has two very different sides to it.

    Two different sides to exceptionalism?

    Being exceptional, unique or believing you are - or believing “that a nation, region, or political system is exceptional and does not conform to the norm” (Random House Unabridged Dictionary)

    **

    As a result of our actions, it is something to strive after. As a justification for our actions, it represents our worst qualities. You are conflating these two.

    Producing something exceptional (or believing it is) or claiming that you are better or your system is better (or believing they are) as justification for something?

    I’m not fusing the two, I’m pointing out is that a belief that something exceptional has been produced can led to the other belief that that give justification to act.

    **

    I think you make the common mistake of seeing one man work with tools produce a chair, and then assuming the tools make the chair, and anyone using those tools must be building a chair.

    How does this fit or make sense?

    I don’t think Americans or the US political system is ‘exceptional’, I think Americans are human beings and the political system a hodge-podge of differing elements of varying degree of worth and benevolence.

     
  4. maryjohn

    maryjohn Senior Member

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    There is the reality that the US occupies a uniquely powerful position. In fact, the US is exceptionally powerful and influential. When exceptionalism pushes us to be on the cutting edge of social and technological progress, that's a good thing.

    When we use our past success to justify playing without rules now, that is a bad thing.

    The tools are the same - a massive military, monetary policy, foreign aid, etc... But the product is different. Thus my analogy.
     
  5. Fyrenza

    Fyrenza Queen of the Ians

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    Balbous, i don't know what to say, to tell you the truth. We ARE proud of our country and the fact that we are The SuperPower.

    We do believe that everyone should be allowed basic human rights, including a democracy to live in, and we're willing to fight for those folks' rights, so that they can decide for themselves what they want. If that is viewed as "American exceptionalism even of the US’s manifest destiny," then we're guilty.

    Something else i'd like to mention, that i don't know if anyone has realized, yet, is that with the institution of the NAFTA, and then the combining of all of our currencies, we effectively became The United States of North America. (If you've wondered why Bush, AND Obama, are willing to just grant amnesty to all the illegal aliens ~ If you've wondered why we aren't actively protecting our borders ~ this is probably the answer.)

    i'm not real sure how the governmental 'blending' is to be done, other than that it will be 'our way' ~ a democracy under The (or, at least, a) constitution.
     

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