Zendik

What kind of BYATCHES defend WalMart & McDonalds using "deathkultur" terms for what's a kult & what isn't? Just because you have worked there? Pathetic! Typical kult member behavior! I recommend a little deprogramming session... As was stated by somebody here who at least half-way knows what they're talking about: Everything in "the deathkultur" is geared toward making you think a certain way. And now you are trying very hard to convince others differently. You are so sucked in you don't even know it, BYATCHES!

Xtina_Byatch

 

Siah

My intent was not to offend you in anyway so, I hope my post was not taken as such.

My hope was that more zendiks would contribute to this 60+ page thread. So far, we only have one side of the story about what goes on at the farm. There are no other voices to balance the discussion.

Certainly it is not fun to be in the position of constantly defending yourself nor do I think you should. Some comments obviously should be responded to but, people currently living on the farm could post about their personal experience there as well.

As it stands right now the impression people are getting about zendik farm is all hard work and little or no time for art or play. That, coupled with little or no spiritual (for lack of a better word) instruction or development disappointed many people. Again let me reiterate that these are just impressions we non-zendiks have from reading this lengthy thread.

Well You said you would answer some questions (of which I have a million) but, I will start with the easy ones first.

1) What is zendik farm like? What is the daily routine, basic rules, what kind of food do you eat etc?

2) What qualities are you looking for in a would be zendik?

3) Say I was a new person on the farm what would I learn form my time there?

4) As a new person what would be expected of me so, other zediks would take me seriously?

5) What kind of work would I have to do?

6) How is the living therapy practiced on the farm today?

Well I do not want to overwhelm you so, I guess 6 questions is a good start. However, feel free to add any additional comments you may have. I truly want to get a feel of what it is like to be a zendik from your(or any other current zendik’s) point of view.

 

I just perused some of the “Cult Watcher” stuff that Red Lentil posted yesterday, which led me to put some thought into this underlying question that we’ve been implicitly kicking around here: “is Zendik Farm a cult or not?” (According to the academic “expert” notion of what constitutes a cult.) I’m pretty sure that the Zendik response to the question would take one of the following forms: (a) we don’t FORCE anyone to do anything...we won’t lock you up in the cellar if you try to leave, or disobey us, like real cults do; (b) from a certain point of view, lots of organizations out there are cults, practicing subtle forms of mind control, trying to get you to believe all sorts of nonsense (think of how you were forced to recite the Pledge of Allegiance every day in grammar school...pretty robotic, cult-like behavior, no?); (c) along the same lines, Zendik Farm is a counterculture scene, and the mainstream culture always wants to demonize people who think or act in unconventional ways...so of course, the world outside the Farm is going to try to convince you that the Zendiks are cultists, because the Man will smear anyone who refuses to follow the Man’s rules. Also (d) hey, we’re really nice guys...hang out with us for awhile and it’ll be obvious to you that we’re not scary, violent weirdos like David Koresh. And finally, a sort of non-answer: (e) we’ve been labeled as a cult so many times, it’s just fucking tiresome for us to have to answer this question once again...

It seems that (a) would be the core of their argument, but it’s not all that convincing, when you think about it...because while it’s true that the Zendiks don’t force anyone to do anything in direct, physical ways, they do use (consciously or not) indirect thought control techniques, precisely the techniques that the cult experts describe...and the overall technique is to convince you that only the Zendiks can save you: your chances of being happy out in the real world are exactly 0%. Leave the nest, and you’re guaranteed to be unhappy...stay put, and you might have to put up with certain pains in the ass, but at least you’re not doomed to be miserable, as you would be in the Deathkultur.

It’s true that you can leave the Farm at any time to, say, visit your parents...no one will stop you, tell you that you can’t go...but if you’re a true believer in the Farm’s philosophy, you probably won’t even want to visit your parents! (And then there’s the practical consideration that you probably gave the Zendiks your car and your dough, so to say that you’re free to leave the Farm whenever you want to is entirely misleading.) You won’t want to leave because “what you need,” you’ll be convinced, is only available at the Farm. And by the same token, if you pressed the issue and announced that you wanted to see your parents once a week, the Zendiks would find this extremely fishy, evidence that you’re not with the overall Zendik program...they’d wonder why there was something outside the Farm’s borders that you seemed to need so badly. In a nutshell, there are any number of organizations that reasonable folks would label as “cults” that do not practice that overt style of physical control, so the Zendiks can’t claim to be “not a cult” because they don’t act this way. Conversely, if the Zendiks or their defenders want to say that organizations like Wal-Mart or McDonald’s are cults too, well, Wal-Mart and McDonald’s don’t force you to do anything in that overt physical sense, either...you can quit anytime, tell the boss to go fuck himself without any real consequences (except getting fired), etc.

Didn’t mean to gab about this for so long...I must really want to procrastinate from doing my work...I think it’s an interesting question, though, perhaps THE question for those who are thinking about getting involved with the Zendiks...

p.s.

I've been suggesting here that the Zendiks can't avoid the cult label by pointing out that there are differences between themselves and the more extreme, infamous cults (just because the Zendiks are different from David Koresh in certain ways doesn't mean they're not a cult). But the opposite proposition is true as well: just because the Zendiks are a cult does not mean that they're just as dangerous and sick as the more extreme cults, or that they share all the features of such cults.

 

When I first found this thread I did some research. There were several cult watch sites that listed many cults and zendik farm was not listed among them. I would think that if zendik farm was a cult they would have listed them. I mean they have been around for 30 years so, they are not some up start organization that has just gone unnoticed. In fact, aside from this thread, I could not find a single article or website that spoke ill of the zendiks.

Also if they do kick as many people out as has been stated on this thread that too would indicate that they may not be a cult. Most cults would do anything to keep people in the cult.

 

No, I would not consider Zendik a cult. That is they typical thing that people start saying when more than a handful of people come together to live by an alternative philosophy. Of course, sometimes those groups do turn out to be cults. I just feel that too often that term is used against the whole community movement in general, as a way to dismiss the whole idea.

 

Heh, even if you tell your boss to go fuck himself, he's got to document and justify his decision to fire you. He'd have to give you back pay, and perhaps unemployment compensation. There are established channels through which you can challenge his decision. Zendik Farm doesn't answer to anyone and can discharge members at any time and for any reason, without compensation or justification. Workers' rights have been gnawed to a bloody stump in the last 30 years, but Zendiks are worse off than we are. Very upsetting.

Loss of your job means the loss of a wage, but expulsion from Zendik Farm means the direct loss of home, identity, possessions, and all of your friends. If Zendik leadership believes what they teach about the outside world, they're sending you to your death when they kick you out.

(For some reason this reminds me that we used to say "have a nice death" to people who rudely refused to buy the magazine.)

(and now I remember Ambi wanting to have a last "date" with me--after I'd been told to leave but before I was actually booted off the property. His request was denied by Zendik leadership. Arol referred to this potential sex between Ambi and me as "a kiss before dying")

Funny what one can be reminded of.

 

Just because a group isn't on a list is no reason to ignore evidence that indicates a possible history of abuse within that group.

Zendik Farm is very small and, aside from doing public-access television and giving the occasional concert, they are absent from public life. They don't do charity work or engage in activism. They recruit young, inexperienced people who, unfortunately, are less likely to make a stink when they have a bad experience. Zendik Farm, after thirty years, is still off the radar.

Actually most former cult members are kicked out of their groups! The average member's need of the group (for survival) is greater than the need of the group for the individual. Leaving Zendik Farm was equivalent to death in our minds, but Zendik Farm had only our labor to lose (easily replaceable). It takes years of sacrifice for an individual member to become trusted with information and responsibilities that would comprimise the group were that person to defect. It's much easier to recruit a new, starry-eyed, enthusiastic member than it is to renew devotion in an older low-level member whose commitment is perceived as flagging.

Instead of scanning lists of cults for "Zendik Farm", you should read about what a "cult" is. There are some excellent essays at the link below which explore the subject without ignoring the sticky bits:
http://www.csj.org/infoserv_cult101/cult101.htm


If others who were harmed by Zendik Farm are not speaking out, that is all the more reason for me to do so.

 

Ah, sweet irony! While Christina was sporting her Zendik t-shirt in an attempt to rouse young female voters, the group she was unwittingly advertising was publishing Arol's essay urging us not to vote at all...


From http://www.teenhollywood.com/d.asp?r=80081&cat=1056 :

Wearing a T-shirt with the phrase 'Stop bitching, start a revolution' written on it, Aguilera criticised girls who are planning to ignore their voting privilege.

She said, "I think it's disrespectful as a female in this country to other females before us who have paved the way to even give us a right to vote, to have the right to vote.

"We really need to exercise that right that we have.... This is happening now.

"Politics truly effects you in every single way possible and you don't know how much it does. So, from the bottom of my heart, please register and get to the polls November 2 and vote."

 

Why'd ya get kick'd off ZF, red? If it's because you just wanted to sit around whining and feeling like a victim, which is your behavior here, then I'm not surprised. Your whole presentation is lame, but typical of any lazy ass loser. A good motto for you to follow would be, "Stop Whining & Get A Life!" BYATCH!

Ugly ass BYATCH!

 

Remember that “cult” is essentially a negative, derogatory term...a word that is always only applied to “you,” or “them” and never to “me” or “us.” Just as you’re never gonna hear someone say “sure, I’m a terrorist, and proud of it!” you’re never gonna hear someone say, “sure, I’m a member of a cult, and proud of it!” So it’s really pointless to ask anyone (a Zendik, or anyone else), “can’t you see that you’re a member of a cult?” because it’s unlikely that the cultist would ever reply with anything but “who, me? you can’t be serious...cultists believe nonsense, but our group knows the truth!...cultists are coerced, exploited, and abused by their leaders, but we willingly follow our leaders’ bidding, because we love them so much and they’re always right!” etc.

When I was a Zendik and would try to explain to people on the streets of Austin what we were up to, I’d usually take their “I’ve heard you guys are a cult” reaction as a sort of square, conservative aversion to anything different, countercultural, radical (“they call us a cult because they don’t want to hear the truth about the Deathkultur!”). My earlier messages on this board were offered in the spirit of defending the Zendiks against the more outlandish charges. But just because the more outlandish charges aren’t true, and might be offered by “squares” who fear anything different or progressive, doesn’t mean that there are not plenty of aspects of the Farm that would qualify Zendik Farm as being a cult...to determine this, we would need to compare what life on the Farm was/is like to what life in other cults is like. And my point was simply that after making this comparison myself, it became pretty obvious to me that the Zendiks have many, many cultish qualities. But don’t take my word for it: read about other cults, and see how they compare to Zendik...

 

Many of the people here fit the term "kultie" just as well as ZF fits the term kult. Yet they don't want you there, and you're not mindlessly preaching their beliefs. There lies the biggest gap, which is why they are not on any kult list. It's being viewed in black & white terms, which is ignorant. If having a leader that makes decisions makes them a kult, then every piece of land on planet Earth is part of some kinda kult.
The deathkultur drone of consumerism & single minded thinking may be broken by something as simple as reading the right book. It's a state of mind. Although "brainwashing" may be an appropriate term, because the powers that be love to dirty our minds as much shit as possible, thinking differently doesn't replace ones good sense of what's real. You're either into it or you're not. If you're an idiot, you might join any old group. I see business men as kult members. It's a much more dynamic term than you might think, and fits a much broader scale than society wants you to think. ZF would be of huge benefit to the right person. They just don't want no BYATHCES!!!

SEXY_BYATCH_NOT

 

I'm finding Christina not attractive at all.....

 

Oh my god this is so damn funny. Check out this ad I ran across totally by chance...





frivolous! Haaa haaa haa

 

Man, I need the pink one so I can be a sexy BYATCH!

I feel like a hussie in white.

 

“If having a leader that makes decisions makes them a kult, then every piece of land on planet Earth is part of some kinda kult.” This is about as intelligent as saying “if having a nose makes you an otter, than every critter on the planet is an otter.” The point is (duh) having a nose is not the distinguishing characteristic of otters, so we can’t separate otters from non-otters based on this criterion...and (duh) having a leader who makes decisions is not the distinguishing characteristic of cults.

You seem to be a disciple of the “Saturday Night Live” school of humor, which holds that there’s nothing funnier than a really annoying character repeating the same stupid catch phrase over and over again.

 

No he/she does not. In most states, employment is at will, which means that the boss can fire you for any reason. If you walk into work wearing a red shirt and the boss does not like red shirts he can fire you. The only exception to this is if you are part of a union or something similar or have some sort of protected status.

Yes I do agree this is a far worse situation than simply losing employment. You are losing your entire life.

 

I still don't understand why someone from Zendik Farms hasn't answered the questions that have been asked by various folks on this forum. Siah -- is there a reason you (or someone else at the Farm for that matter) haven't answered these questions?

 

Actually, I'm just here to make you lose your cool. There's nothing funnier than this thread. Nothing more stupid than people like you defending your stock point of view. Nothing more retarded than fools being pissed about their own decision to join a group that they couldn't deal with. Nothing more boring than weak debates. And nothing more frustrating than not getting your questions answered. What did I expect from a place called Hip Forums? NOTHING BYATCH!


Stop BYATCHING_Start an argument!

 

just cus sumtnin is designed and geared tword controling your thoughts, dosent mean that a strong minded person cannot continue to think freely. i thikn zendik is nothing more than a parasite of this deathculture. as they cant survive at all without it, yet fail to have a single positive impact on it, and fail to even try to have a positive impact on it. they seem more selfish and ignorant than trustfund babies.

 

I never doubted that you have a purpose, Xtina. Debates get boring when ADD children scream for attention while the grownups are trying to have a conversation. Keep talking smack, and you'll NEVER get on my buddy list!