Why Democrats (Liberals) Piss Me Off

Clearly there should be reforms in American health care, with somewhere like 40 to 50 million uninsured. There should be reforms in Social Security as well. One problem is that the U.S. government spends more than it has, and the war has a lot to do with that.

I am all for supporting the elderly and nationalized health care, given the disaster of the privatized system which exists in the U.S. Something along the Canadian model would be more humane for Americans.

I also support various programs such as unemployment compensation for those who really need it so as to reduce the hardships for decent, hard-working Americans. Subsidized day care for working mothers also sounds like a good idea for Western nations experiencing declining populations.

However, I don't think I am being unreasonable by saying this is a far cry from the government "taking care of people." As I wrote in the beginning of the thread, there should be a safety net for the more vulnerable members of society.

I say the government should not take care of people in the sense that generally privatization has been a good thing by encouraging competition and thus greater efficiency by corporations. Privatization reduces the scope of government in day to day affairs. I also believe welfare can get out of hand, as I have seen it (to an extent) from first-hand experience. I have a very distant relative who is always pestering my family to stay over and will call when my family members are working because she has too much free time: she doesn't work, obtaining disability or some type of welfare. Yet she is fully capable of working and had no problem dancing at a party pretty rigorously from what I saw.

My concern, and it's something I have observed, is that when the government provides welfare there is a disincentive to work. To give just one example, when I first started college I was layed off from a big company (which was somewhat abusive to workers, I think). I then received unemployment compensation and was able to work the system to get it while I was going to school, and skirting getting reemployed. The fact that the government made money readily available to me (although it wasn't much) gave me less incentive to try hard to find a new job.

Honestly I have not found this thread real exciting as of late, and besides, it seems, without me trying to put Balbus down, that he's a little too predictable.

 

My last post was fairly long but didn't have the passion I thought it should have. Why, why is it that I dislike the notion that the government should take care of people?

My thoughts lead me to the bumpkins of society whose only concern is what the government can give them. They have a preoccupation with the daily affairs in life and do not have any ideals to aspire to. The type of people politicians steer their messages to in order to get the most votes: stooping to a level that appeases the majority. The masses.

The reason why the democratic system is so corrupt is because elections become a circus in which all kinds of promises are made as to what what goodies will be delivered to the people (whether these promises are fulfilled is another issue).

I hate that. Yes I hate that. I hate the illiterate bumpkins who watch TV all day and have no concern for the cultural trends of the nation: "Just give me a politician who will provide that safety net and I am happy!" It doesn't matter if he is a pervert, is morally lax, forges alliances with questionable nations and political leaders, ignores the immigration problems, etc. I am thinking of some of those who voted for Bill Clinton.

The ones who have no theoretical nor practical concern (unlike liberal intellectuals) over issues like racism, sexism, homophobia even. The bumpkins who vote Democrat because you can't have a government supporting the "rich" (i.e., the productive). The ones who you want to leech off of! The intelligent, the productive, those with the blessed genes; the very best of humanity.

I am referring, to a great extent, to the White underclass by the way.

 

you are joking, right?

this concept of social darwinism is a freaking joke, and its been proven wrong ages ago.

 

This may go against your ideology, Mui, but in Western democracies the most intelligent and resourceful have tended to reach the top.

The communist fixation with rooting out the "oppressive" bourgeoisie of Russia destroyed its most intelligent and productive classes. The communists never seemed to grasp the need of a hierarchy because to some extent we all have different talents and abilities, among other reasons.

 

Bullshit.. Pure fascist bullshit.. I remember the first time we debated LSD, you even admitted yourself you were a racist... now y ou go off on how you dont like fascists and racism... your ideas change dont they? you know who used social darwinism to justify his means? Adolph Hitler... You claim to be against neo-cons and fascists yet social darwinism is the pinnacle ideology of fascists and neocons.
And its completely false bullshit

"As for the Neocon Social Darwinist belief that the rich are inherently, genetically better than the poor, you can ignore such nonsense. Upward mobility of families in America throughout the centuries proves that Social Darwinism is wrong. Anyone, any family, can prosper if given a chance. The artificial social hierarchy of your class system, imposed from birth, is what cripples self-esteem and skills of the poor, and gives the rich undeserved confidence and opportunities. As Rousseau said, “Man is born free, but is everywhere in chains.”


"I also despise the Fascists, who have no respect for individual liberty, often promote racism through ignorance (it's no secret that neo-Nazis tend to be on the low end of the intelligence scale), and display the more primitive aspects of humanity with their blind nationalism."
Gee LSD... you claim to be against fascists and neo-nazis yet you sound like a neo nazi to me. How long ago were you promoting racism? Not that long ago. and now social darwinism? Your words could be coming from the mouth of Hitler himself.

There is no western democracy, only western republics... by the way... and your notion that the most intelligent and genetically better people ... the "superior beings" are at the top... is enough to make me vomit.. you ignore the fact that many people are born into wealth, and many families have a history of benefiting from slavery.

does being a fascist social darwinist jackass make you feel better about yourself? Does it make you feel like an intelligent person, lsd?

 

If you are using the term "social Darwinism" to describe the belief that the most intelligent and resourceful reach the top in a democratic society, then I am that. Adoplf Hitler used brute force to reach the top, and eliminated his opponents -- and he lost the war, leaving his nation to pay heavy consequences (and reparations to this day).

If Adolf Hitler said that 1+1 is 2, then I would agree with him.

Statistically those with the highest IQs reach the top.

 

And political correctness is enough to make me vomit, especially when it goes unquestioned.

 

Ignore everything else I said.
You are obviously maleducated if you did not already know that belief was social darwinism, that it was created in the 19th century... and that sense then it has been proven wrong many times and is considered a dead theory to many historians.
Adolph hitler used a lot of stuff to reach the top... he was democratically elected, remember... and one of the ideologies in which he perpetuated was that of Social Darwinism... it was an ideology embraced by Fascists across the world...

That is complete bullshit... and I challenge you to find any source which says so... you wont find any though, because it is complete bullshit... you are pulling shit out of your ass... there is no statistical evidence which proves social darwinism...

So ignore all my other points... lsd, you are a fascist... i dont care what fucking rhetoric you chant... A social darwinist, openly racist fuck... you cant get much closer to a Neo Nazi than that...

By any means you jackass im not a politically correct person, and I wasnt being politically correct than... america is a republic not a democracy, there is a huge difference... You can claim my point of view is "politically correct" and disregard it if you wish... if that makes you feel better...

For someone who claims to have "superior" genetics, you sure are a fucking dumbass when it comes to knowing history.

 

What I want to add to this thread, foreseeing that it may get out of hand, is that Mui can use the "f-word" as many times as he wants, can put Malcolm X on his profile, can rant against imperialism and corporate welfare, among other things, and I don't think he's a rebel at all.

You see, this type of aggression (there is underlying aggression, IMO) is socially sanctioned. You are not questioned for being an extreme leftist in just about any of the institutions of higher education. I would know because I have written papers with both left-wing and right-wing views, as I felt the need, and did not get as much of a rise from my more leftish papers.

It does not cross the borders in our society to support Malcolm X, certainly not today, but it's just safe enough to not only be popular but to win praise.

I could have created a fictitious name and posted the same things Mui does, and I guarantee I would win quick popularity.

I can tolerate the attack on my character by Balbus (a super moderator), but from more than one person on the same thread is just a waste of time to deal with. Dealing with teenage Marxists gets old too. We will see how things go here...

 

Sure, instead of replying to the post, or finding sources for your outrageous claims, you will change the way you respond and turn it into an attack towards my beliefs.
Intelligent.

I dont care if you think im a rebel, it's not about being a rebel... its about expressing your opinions.

Actually, we are questioned.. just not by other leftists... but by conservatives... fascists like yourself... and neo cons... and those with a conservative ideology are never questioned by those who share their views either...
Honestly i think you are the one trying to portray yourself as this big bad rebel... ooh my opinion is so not accepted by the mainstream... whine whine whine... i never go "look at me im a fuckin rebel!!"... i dont share my views to seem like a "rebel" that is fucking stupid..

That is fucking bullshit at its finest... almost more full of shit than your claims that there is statistical evidence that rich people have higher IQs...
which you refuse to find a source for... because it doesnt exist.

Do this test, lsd... get a fucking malcolm x shirt... and parade around town with it... you WILL get nasty looks... you WILL get people arguing against you... it isnt socially acceptable... you might even get your ass kicked... especially if you are WHITE and openly support malcolm x... Even when X was alive it STILL wasnt acceptable... its still not acceptable today...

My intention is not to cross the borders of society, it is only to give my opinions... im not trying to be this huge radical rebellious person that people look up to... Look, these are my ideas, this is why I believe in them... thats all i want to say... maybe spark some thought into people.

what are you talking about? What name... what quotes... what same things... This is a fucking forum for hippies, of course others who share my views are going to accept it... but those who dont, like you, arent... its the same with anyone... its not about popularity... trust me, im not the fucking most popular guy on hipforums... far from it my friend... sure those who believe in the same things as me will agree with me... but that doesnt mean everyone is so accepting of it...

Cant handle the heat? so you post a thread trying to put me off as some kid who just wants to be popular and a "rebel"... fucking bullshit... how about you actually bring some credibility to your belief... why dont you actually go find some sources to back up your claims, instead of ignoring everything I say... putting it off as nothing because of who I am...

Dealing with racist, fascist assholes gets old too... If you went on a forum for neo nazis... try stormfront.org... and posted your bullshit, im sure you would be MUCH more popular than me if I went there and posted mine.


Lsd, your superior genes are not showing.
Why dont you guys only breed with one another so you can develop the supreme race of human beings... Yeah, theres nothing fascist or nazi-like about social darwinism at all

the moment you claimed you were against fascists and racism is the moment I knew you were full of shit...

why exactly have you changed LSDseeker... why arent you spouting the same "im a racist" bullshit like you were before? Why the change in heart?


Yeah there is anger here lsd... lots and lots of anger... nazis murdered many innocent people, neo nazis beat and murder innocent people every day... and for a person who once claimed to be racist and now is supposidly an "Anti-racist anti-nazi/fascist social darwinist who believes that the rich people have "superior genetics" and "higher iqs" ... i think there is a good reason to be angry with you...

you are like "im not a nazi" than you go off and spout the gospel of Hitler among other fascists.

 

You would be the perfect caricature of a teenage Marxist for a second-rate cartoon, Mui (someone a little less articulate than Lisa Simpson).

Your views are incredibly stereotypical -- a little too stereotypical for me, personally, to buy that you sincerely believe in everything you say.

Sure, it may bug some people if you wear a Malcolm X T-shirt, and it would be looked down upon in corporate America, but what's hippest is often somewhat at the fringe.

Not long ago it was actually fashionable for people to wear "X" caps (for Malcolm X), just like Nike shoes.

Your emotionally-laced posts are not surprising, either. Given how emotional you and others are about some of the issues I discuss, why should I even bother to introduce sources (and there are plenty)? You already have formed your views (or those you think conform to your image), and you will just scream "Fascist."

 

Your ideas are stereotypical too... you dont realize that though... everything that is said has usually already been said... what you think you are so cool because you worship the doctrine which was made popular by fascists? I see more people chanting the same rhetoric as you than I do people who share my views, honestly..

You still think im doing it to be hip? You think i fucking like malcolm x to make me cool? You think it isnt about his ideas, what he accomplished... his life in general...?

Fashionable... its just a statement that someone likes malcolm x... malcolm x influenced a lot of peoples lives... but not the majority by any means.. but either way it doesnt discredit or give him credibility... you are just fishing for ways to offend me

PLEASE, i beg of you to post sources... if there are many of them, why not? Go for it, captain. but I bet you wont, because you dont have them... i think you like to make up shit as you go, and claim its true without offering any real evidence... so please, prove me wrong, give me a source or something to look at...

LSD, i'm calling you a fascist because the first time I talked to y ou, you were very pro-racism, and not you claim you arent... Also, because the same things you say about the rich having "superior genes" and being more intelligent and all that bullshit is the exact same thing Nazis in germany and especially adolf hitler were saying... pretty much the exact same thing... it is a component of Fascism whether you like it or not, and whether you like it or not, it was popularized by Hitler.

You just like the idea that the wealthy are superior to others so you can pretend like you are better than others... that is such fucking shit... there have been so many intelligent people who were at the bottom of the classist society.

You still havent answered 90% of my question, lsd...
Lsd, why the change in heart? what made you turn against racism, which you once supported?
Why should I believe that you arent a fascist?

Lsd, of course i am putting a lot of emotion into this... basically, what you are saying is that me and my family along with my friends are all inferior to you, are all not intelligent, or productive workers, and are all inferior to the "upper classes"... and that only the intelligent people are in the wealthy class... its complete bullshit... how can you not expect to piss a person off while chanting this crap.. you even claim that they have "superior genetics"... and still you cant see the relation between this and Hitler?

Lsd, you are saying that the wealthy are more intelligent and have superior genes than that in the lower class... it is well known that white people mostly make up the high class, and that minorities tend to make up the lower class.. what you are suggesting in itself is a form of racism... if what you say is true, than africans, hispanics, asians are all generally more stupid and than white people. This is a racist ideology in itself.
How can you not see the relation betwen that and the ideas of Adolf Hitler

You think im just fitting the mold and following my peers, but the exact same thing could be said about you...

 

There is a dilemma in a discussion like this one here. Your character is repeatedly attacked, a person uses the word "Fascist" over and over for rhetorical effect, perhaps because he is unsure about himself, writes things about you out of context, and then claims he wants a legitimate debate with sources.

How can you even have a debate given the lack of civility? I am talking about basic protocol here.

I never claimed to be "anti-racist." It is my view that racism is to some extent rooted in human nature. This is what Mui has taken out of context.

Mui, like George W. Bush, sees the world as black and white. This is understandable because he is young. But I don't see a genuine interest within him in the issues I have discussed.

I have said from the beginning that I am willing to debate so long as there is civility. Perhaps the lack of civility here among those few who have lashed out at me is some evidence that my views are somewhere in the right direction.

 

6

 

Still you fail to offer any replies to my questions or offer any sources to back up your claims...

i will repeat this
Lsd, you are saying that the wealthy are more intelligent and have superior genes than that in the lower class... it is well known that white people mostly make up the high class, and that minorities tend to make up the lower class.. what you are suggesting in itself is a form of racism... if what you say is true, than africans, hispanics, asians are all generally more stupid and than white people. This is a racist ideology in itself.
How can you not see the relation betwen that and the ideas of Adolf Hitler

No, im using the word fascist because the ideology of social darwinism IS a fascist ideology.
Not for rhetorical effect.

And i did not think i was writing things about you out of context... none more than you are to me.

You are talking about an ideology which says that white people are generally superior to others.

You made an outrageous claim that people in the higher classes have higher IQs than those in the lower classes... you ought to back something like that up in order to have credibility... and if the sources are so plenty I do not see why you do not give me sources..

Another post goes by, lsd, and still no sources.

I think that is where i got the idea you claimed to be against racism... but now y ou made it loud and clear where you stand on that... thanks.

Why do you say that?
You dont see the genuine interest I have in these issues? Is not wasting hours and hours replying and trying to shed some light on you proof enough? Dont most people who dont give a fuck about issues usually NOT DEBATE POLITICS... dont they usually talk on the young hippies forum about how they like pie or dont th ey usually talk about how they are so stoned out their mind in the marijuana forums? If I didnt really have an interest in these things I wouldnt BE here, lsd.

Why do you say I see the world in black and white... I see most my beliefs as being true, just as any other person.. some things i realize I dont know for a fact.. but just because I get mad at a person for suggesting that they are "superior" because they are rich doesnt mean I see the world in black and white...

You were uncivil the moment you claimed you knew who the superior race was.

Just because we get pissed at you DOESNT credit your insane views. You pissed me off.. You are a racist, an open racist... i hate racists.. you believe everyone has racism within them... i disagree with you strongly on this... maybe you have racism inside of you... but I honestly think that I do not... and maybe you think i do, maybe you think im a fool for thinking that I can be impervious to racism... well I will say there is a difference between racism and maybe judging someone too early or stereotyping people... racism is so much more than that...

If you want to credit your views, post sources... thats the only way... I try to be civil, i honestly do, but when someone comes along and basically promotes the idea of "superior genetic race", that the poor are collectively less intelligent... its hard to maintain calmness.. its hard to be civil, when the person your debating against is attacking not just you, not just your family, but the majority of people you interact with... and even certain races..

 

That is exactly the same thing as I believe, believe it or not... im not a communist who thinks of forcing his ideology on people who dont want it.. I think a lot of us have more in common than we think... and about the fish proverb... it has some truth to it, but its so damn cliche... everyone says it... and it usually is just for that effect...
Gilligan i respect you more so than others I debate against, you really did it intelligently... and as I make mistakes too, like I said, i try to be civil.. but some things just go way too far... I dont blame myself for getting angry at someone who believes in "superior races"...

On a sidenote, africans have superior genetics very slightly in the fact that they do not get sun burnt and have larger penises. On the other hand, they are more suseptable to certain skin disease, on another hand, so are white people.

If only we could walk a few miles in eachothers shoes do I think we could begin to understand one another. Only if we lived eachothers lives and saw the same things as eachother and read the same things...

 

I can understand your behavior because you are young, Mui. I have much less tolerance for those twice or three times your age who behave as you do and have no clue that something is wrong.

But, to give some perspective of where I am coming at... you attacked my character, in what you felt was an issue you had a moral upper ground on. You repeatedly called me a "fascist," and, by the way, you misused the term based on my studies of history. I remember a good writer wrote that "fascist" is the most misused word in the English language -- either that or "racism," I am not sure.

There are so many claims in your posts, in addition to the attacks, that I feel I am being filibustered. I could post sources and they'd be drowned out. I am sure the vast majority of the participants of this forum, even those who agree with you, will not read most of what's on this thread. People can only take in so much information before they just decide to ignore a post or thread.

Another feature needed in a healthy debate is open-mindedness. I am not saying that I am unbiased or that someone can be totally unbiased, but if I introduced my sources I have a feeling that the character attacks would instead be launched against those I am citing.

How do we know past behavior will not be repeated?

I honestly have nothing to prove to anyone here. One reason why I have not posted sources is because for me participating in this forum is about self-discovery, rather than recruiting. I don't represent any party, contrary to what you claim. I have read enough scholarly books on race and related issues to feel confident that I know at least as much as most here.

I did not come here to one-up anyone. Even when I felt Balbus stepped way over the line I thought I should at least respond to him. I dislike the guy and feel he took cheap blows at me, which is why I did not engage with him the way he would have wanted -- which he declared as a victory.

That's how this thread has been.

 

God forbid some statistical patterns are found with complex mathematical models among races and groups that have evolved thousands of miles apart.

 

Blame it on my age, sure... My behavior wasnt a result of my age.. I would have acted the same way when IM 30.. because what you are saying goes against my value structure.
Im just curious LSD, how old are you?

Which writer? I honestly dont think you have much character... A fascist is one who supports fascism... theres lots of components to fascism.. maybe you arent exactly a fascist, but some of your ideas are derived from fascist ideas.
Based on my studies of history your beliefs are similar in ways to that of fascists.

Its true, a lot of people dont read my posts... most people skip over my posts... hell i dont care... im still gonna give my views regardless.
I believe your ideas are in itself an attack to me.. i dont think you can claim you were the only one who has been attacked... or acted uncivilly.

I honestly just think you are afraid of citing sources... if you have sources, cite them, it shouldnt be such a big deal like you are making it... You are worried that I will continue to attack you if you post your sources? If you post your sources, how about I wont even reply to them... i jsut want to see the sources in which you claim you have... i will leave all my comments out... i really just want to read what you are reading... hell, maybe you can shed some light on me? I just want to see the sources.

I realize you dont have to prove anything to me... Help others discover themselves by posting your sources... it really shouldnt be that big of a deal. You may think i am maleducated because of my age, or how I sometimes get pissed at people, LSD... but I can assure you I read a lot too.. about lots of different things... I study lots of things... I didnt jump on the x bandwagon to be cool, i discovered him after reading and hearing about him in history class... then I read even more about him, lots of different things... Everything I talk about as far as politics concerned I consider myself educated in... i've read both sides, i know both arguments... and I know what my personal beliefs are... same thing for you i guess, and were not going to change eachothers opinions. I am confident in my beliefs probably about as much as you are confident in yours. But one thing I never shy away from is posting a source if I have it.

Im sorry for what balbus has said to you, but its not my fault what balbus says to you... one time someone hurts your feelings is ok, but now that its happened twice you are getting all uppity about it... You took as many cheap shots as me and balbus did... i dont think anyone can claim we have been more civil than one another, we are all equally guilty of this i think..
You have to realize that I saw your belief structure, being social darwinism(which I have read and studied about), an attack and a threat to me (which I still think is)... so I posted accordingly... maybe irrationally...

Im sorry that you feel we have been so uncivil that you refuse to list sources to your claims (which I think are outrageously false and no such statistic of IQ could even exist, although if such a statistic does exist, i want to see it)

We dont have to fight with one another or debate anymore... fuck it, its worthless.. what a waste of time.. all for nothing... dont worry this thing wont happen between me and you again, LSD, i wont let it happen... i honestly never want to speak to you again... so... do what you like... im signing off this thread.

Your opinions are yours and I suppose I should honor them even if they basically say that im stupid, lazy, and genetically inferior.. believe what you want and I will do the same... but this is no popularity contest..

 

I feel the same way.