Who deserves medical care?

Wow that is a lot more. I wonder why that is.

 

Because they can get away with it...

 

There was an attempt to allow medicare to bargain for cheaper medicine. The repubs voted it down. Of course the medical lobbyists had nothing to do with it.

 

because in the US we worship the almighty profit, no matter who has to suffer at the bottom.

 

<< Why is it so hard to get our heads around
the fact that just because something doesn't make a profit, that does not mean that it A: Isn't
morally correct and B: Can be achieved more or less overnight>>

Your idea of morally correct is rather simplistic and idealistic.

<<
Having a movement that is so vehemently against doing something as simple as allowing families
to survive when the breadwinner gets ill or injured at work is abhorrent and insulting, and really, you
have to wonder how they can consider themselves American at all.>>

The movement is not against euthanizing the feckless medically. It is against forcing viables to sacrifice civil rights, privacy, personal security and their own health and well being. To people they do not owe anything, at their cost, against their will. They are against destroying quality medicine and the public sector health industry. The private health can't be. There's more but that should be enough. The well being and interest of the private citizen IS American. Socialism and communism are what is not American. Neither is welfare. It got started because there was a small number of people too stupid to be educable and decreasing unskilled work. It did not start because people are entitled to something just because they were born. That is a commie type, rat aquarium thing like we have become. 100 million stupid people with no desire or developed life skill laying on their disgusting ass thinking they are owed anything but a free hole in the ground. America has always done that.

<< If this country is so convinced that economics equal freedom, then the core of America can now be
boiled down to "Freedom is exclusive to those that can afford it.>>

You are not making a distinction between "freedom" and a free lunch. You do not want freedom, you want a free lunch. The American people unfortunately remain intelligent enough to make the distinction.

<<
" At the very fundamental level,
every human needs the following to function: Water, Food, Shelter, and soundness of body, which,
unless everyone was a doctor, cannot be achieved without a system in place that gives everyone
equal access to it.>>

Again, you confuse simple realities. Everyone has access already. You mean to say that everyone should get free receipt of it. But beyond that, we already have overwhelming suffering and endangerment to the viable population. Unfortunately it is just a reality that overpopulation is untenable and life is competative. That is what you are doing now. You are competing with someone who has managed too find survival to give theirs to someone who has not. You are attempting to use words to crete something that viable people create by labor. The talking skill is becoming of less and less value. The stupid remain too stupid and that's all they got. The smart, no matter how humane and generous (look at the last five worthless generations they supported, until now we have overpopulation in all classes of our society.) are just getting exasperated and fed up. The government always robs them and now claims all for the beggars. That formula is a band aid that will fester and take everybody with it. That's the problem with pyramid schemes, even reverse ones like "entitlements".

<< Without this system, even the most minute problem that could be taken care of in an hour, becomes
a debilitating and even fatal malady. One of my students, for example, went to Nigeria twice on a
medical/surgical trip, and documented his patients coming in with what should have been minor
tumors and cysts, now swollen to the point that they were blinding and suffocating their victims.>>

You are trying to compare nigeria? To the US? That does not compute. Nigeria does not want more population. You would think to an educated person that would be obvious? What for pray tell? They are completely swamped in corruption so badly that it will not create more financial burden for which they will steal more, they will simply hack those tumors out along with removing the head. As I understand it, thry are more raunchy and determined than ever.

But you are trying the " preventive" spin even though we know that doesn't do anything at all unless people their selves are willing and the majority are not. That is the basis of the medical business, those who do not wish to be overly concerned with health or doing "what you say". Your patients are your own disaster on that one. The use of these causes to generate ngo jobs and industry profits has weakened because industry grows increasingly unwilling to lose money and to do that which is unwise, unethical and irrespocncible when one has impact like that on human life, society and the natural environment. It does not matter whether your program was successful or not ALL programs will be absorbed and NONE successful if you were to get your apparently unconsidered way.

<< Is this what is to become of us? In what is supposed to be a first-world country? >>

That is the point. If we go with your plan it will no longer be a first world country. That is why viables are fighting for their lives and their country. We became a first world country without welfare and now welfare is what is tearing us apart because the gov and industry want to get every penny they can and make as much as they can before....well, before folks won't have to worry about money any more.

<<Where getting
treated for low-grade medical issues upsets the balance of a household and - Darwin forbid -getting a serious illness can cast a family into the streets? >>

There are poor camps going up all over and homeless people are being referred to them already. People of culture, education, responcibility knew this was inevitable some time ago. The feckless don't know one day to the next nor do they care. They are like you. They demand something costy gets paid for but they never have a shovel in their hand or the remotest concept of how to pay for it. That's the modern slave's problem too. Another thing that has stripped some of the gilt off the hollow image of welfare. You're a bit late. "Welfate to work" has been tried exhaustively and utterly failed. Education is another false light because even if people hadn't been getting statistically stupider, there will be no jobs for a person with a "degree" that does not use punctuation and is as stupid or inept when they graduate as when they star. Affirmative action management placements have demonstrated that too. You just can't "pretend" a person is capable of doing a job well, that becomes a statistic. Industry and society have made life so competative that millions of people can't compete for available resources. No one can realistically see how that is fixable or sustainable.

<<What kind of country is that anyways?>>

As always, a free country. But freedom is a double edged sword, is not free and is actually the opposite of a country of "free stuff". No one ever said it was. People said things like "buyer beware" and "no such thing as a free lunch".

No one ever really believed or intended any of this. We are overloaded and a couple people have wanted to ride their way up so they got people all hyped up for the purpose of serving their own interests. It will happen, but dc is going to have to restrict their tender mercies and ministrations to the welfare people who think they want them and leave regular people out of it if they want their way. Ofraudacare must be voluntary and without forced contribution by others.
I'm curious, how much of it do you wish to pay for? How much do you have? That much more will be needed tomorrow so get busy! Oh and btw you are also needing to pay for the fifty (your share comrade) orphans that were just delivered to you and your share of the homeless aren't going to like that...

"Modern conditions hamper youths who seek to grasp these simple truths"

 

Some reasons:

 

Canadians can buy private healtj can't they? You don't have to put up with state care you can.pick?

 

We can go to whichever hospital or doctor we want to, they're all paid by the government and all stick to the same pricing structure (as far as I know).

 

I see what the apple is saying. Blame the victims of a society that cares nothing about its citizens--only profit. The fact that there are homeless vets exemplifies the "love and respect" our leaders have for the citizens who have given the most. The fact that there are and have been vast ghettoes in our large cities for generations while billions go for wars and payoffs to foreign leaders. The fact that corporations have moved whole factories to other countries precisely because the workers here want a living wage, is proof that Ms. Rands selfish(some would say godless) ideas are certainly alive and working well. Dow-Jones is over 16,000 and the federal minimum wage is 7.10 an hour? Right--work your way up on that.

 

Who deserves medical care? On the arbitrary concrete situation it still comes to being "the referred to". If you are not referred you still might have to wait for the first bill to resolve the Care for the right doctor. ALso, it may resound around the appropriate medical judgment.

Essentially we are not signing up to deserve medical care; we are only signing up have the payments and support through the program of attended to medical care.

Thus I answer, only the somehow privileged deserve medical care. Otherwise you might as well go and get run over by a truck.:biker:

 

What bothers me most is all the people who believe something free is good, especially here, in the land of free cholera blankets. Medical people do not think our commiecare will be like canada's precious, no...we think it will be US style and some people are like moths to the flame while most of us want nothing-to-do-with-it. I myself call it a more passive kind of euthanasia medicine. People will sign something without reading it. In the case of the ACA, that's a good 'ol American fool killer and if even blacks, hispanics an poor did not think so either - why it seems like they'd have their "millions" already wouldn't it?
Anyway, that's just me and mine. I thought of canadians didn't want to wait or like what they hear they could buy other care of their choice - another reason not to let up on "ACA" until it is, if ever, about "healthcare" and wellbeing.

 

Anyone who thinks that not everyone is entitled to health care, whether they can afford it or not, needs to realize that everything they themselves have was given to them. They were given the opportunities, they were given the abilities, the influences, the role models, environment, etc... to get what they have.

Those that are worried and resistant to the idea of having to give up more so someone else - who wasn't lucky enough to be born into the same circumstances - can live a healthier life with less pain, should try to imagine how it would feel to live without the medical care that they take for granted.

As for those that throw 50 bucks a week into the basket at church, hoping to buy your way into heaven (buy your minister's teenager a new car), and feel that people who aren't like you don't deserve to have health care because they aren't of your race or because they are poor, you can kiss my ass, fuckers!

 

Just give these people who need consoling for there deserved medicare a couple of bucks for their bus trip when they walk out of the pharmacy. They deserve that for a love affaire you couldn't have.

 

Sorry, I'm sleep deprived. I don't get your meaning.

 

There are more important issues for the activist than "medicare". And people live too long anyway. Obama's ideas are far better than Clinton's.:mickey:

 

That was the most coherent post I've ever seen you make.

 

This is just dumb.

 

I see stuff like this a lot when it comes to allowing disadvantaged people to actually eat or survive - yet I never hear of the privileged people volunteering to have a shorter life either - keep in mind, just being poor already shortens your lifespan by a good 15-20%

 

That's it. Try to make ipso facto into veritas detracto - won't change a thing

 

I am afraid in the US that is going to get much worse all too quickly -